StarCraft® II

A Possible P Solution to Infestors

Posts: 903
+10 against psionic meaning if infestors get in a storm they die. Extra damage against psionic is so it does not affect anything infestors.

Yeah terrans don't make ravens right now....so why not give a reason too make ravens? besides detection for those infestors crawling in the dirt. Big problem with raven is the inability to see infestors before being fungal'd so need to increase sight range. What else does it effect? well detection of ghost, roaches, Dts so all around just more handy. Might get less terrans throwing scans and making 1-2 ravens.

I don't think infestors need nerfs I think the counters are ineffective.

My point of view for what it is worth.


If infestors get (basically) 1-shotted by storm, then HTs will become broken.
Ravens are quite fragile, as well as expensive. Scans are practically free. Most Terrans opt for missile turrets instead of crippling medivac production or building more starports than necessary. Ravens could be made to be more effective, and, as stated before, I like the idea of them becoming sort of psionic hunters. A sight increase could work, as well as a buff to their cost.

I have never suggested infestor nerfs, and am in fact trying to make a counter that isn't absolutely broken, yet doesn't affect only 1 match-up (which would show poor design, like some sort of band-aid).
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Posts: 7,572
Going Templar tech, it'll be hard to have more than a few immortals, at least until 3 bases. Also, the P composition you mentioned above will be quite hard to pull off, seeing as you couldn't have too many HTs, or you wouldn't have an army, and too many archons, and even one ghost would be devastating.

Marauders have more than double a marine's health, for less cost than a stalker. They can handle storms, which does a total of 80 damage in 4 seconds.

Again, the composition mentioned would be very gas heavy, so sentries should be scarce.


How do you skip Immortals when facing Mech? It only takes a few Ht's with a few Sentries to Forcefield and storm. One Ghost cannot kill THAT many Archons and besides, Wouldn't you send in Zealots to take out ghosts?
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Posts: 903
11/12/2012 10:28 AMPosted by OpenWound

Which is countered by overseers.
which can be killed by lots of things, it's a rock paper scissors game that is the point


That's sorta the problem. Rock paper scissors seems to me like a boring, uncreative game. My suggested buff will allow HTs to certainly become more effective, but would not necessarily insta-kill infestors.
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Posts: 3,018

which can be killed by lots of things, it's a rock paper scissors game that is the point


That's sorta the problem. Rock paper scissors seems to me like a boring, uncreative game. My suggested buff will allow HTs to certainly become more effective, but would not necessarily insta-kill infestors.
most units in this game by design have a hard counter and a soft counter, the infestor only has softcounters. By design it's what the problem is and I believe would have minimal impact to balance and would just increase the micro ceiling for all. Positioning of every thing will be key.
Edited by OpenWound on 11/12/2012 10:47 AM PST
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Posts: 903
11/12/2012 10:34 AMPosted by VIPER
How do you skip Immortals when facing Mech? It only takes a few Ht's with a few Sentries to Forcefield and storm. One Ghost cannot kill THAT many Archons and besides, Wouldn't you send in Zealots to take out ghosts?


I never said skip. I said that there would be less built, because you would be investing gas into templar.

THAT many archons meaning 1-2? 3-4? 5-6? Also, it would take at least 3-5 sentries to put a concave of FFs around the back of an army, and 1-2 HT's to storm. This is assuming that you put everything into that army, and are not conducting drops. SO much gas.

Zealots to take out ghosts, lets see... Ghosts usually wouldn't be alone, and they, along with a small wall of marines, can take out zealots easily. Ghosts can be made easily off 5-6rax, while warping in zealots cripples your HT and other gateway unit production.
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Posts: 903
most units in this game by design have a hard counter and a soft counter, the infestor only has softcounters. By design it's what the problem is and I believe would have minimal impact to balance and would just increase the micro ceiling for all.


A fundamental part of the game, by design, is that even if you have the hard counter for something, or a superior force, it doesn't always mean you win. Why not just have a high templar ability that sends out a beam to kill ALL the infestors it hits? Because that would be too lackluster. I think it would be boring if everything was so easily countered.

Positioning WOULD still be key, but the High Templar would just be able to get to his position faster.
Edited by Elemental on 11/12/2012 10:51 AM PST
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Posts: 9,881
11/12/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Elemental
If infestors get (basically) 1-shotted by storm, then HTs will become broken.


My idea would be to buff the total damage storm does to 80+(10vs psionic) so in order for the infestors to die they have to be grouped up, and caught in the storm. This makes zerg have to split units and not just go infestor due to storms will kill them if caught in it.

Yet problem still stands that currently infestor has same vision as HT so they can see each other and it's luck of the draw on who gets what off first. Unless the ht could cast storm farther then they see but then that messes up PvT.

So I guess one nerf would be decrease infestor's sight to 9, to deal with the quick draw problem.

Again just theory, need someone higher in the ladder to look it over, play a custom map with said changes and say "WTF you thinking", or "hmm almost a good idea".
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Posts: 7,572
I never said skip. I said that there would be less built, because you would be investing gas into templar.

THAT many archons meaning 1-2? 3-4? 5-6? Also, it would take at least 3-5 sentries to put a concave of FFs around the back of an army, and 1-2 HT's to storm. This is assuming that you put everything into that army, and are not conducting drops. SO much gas.

Zealots to take out ghosts, lets see... Ghosts usually wouldn't be alone, and they, along with a small wall of marines, can take out zealots easily. Ghosts can be made easily off 5-6rax, while warping in zealots cripples your HT and other gateway unit production.


1. Silver (there I pulled the league card)
2. Protoss (like Zerg) costs a lot of gas in the late game That's just the way it is (Terrans too).
3. Watch some Terran Streams, they separate their Ghosts most of the time. And Ghosts can't be made until EIGHT Barracks. Not to mention Zealots are part of the CORE you a Protoss late-game army.

L
2
P
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Posts: 903
Again just theory, need someone higher in the ladder to look it over, play a custom map with said changes and say "WTF you thinking", or "hmm almost a good idea".

I think this is what should happen.
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Posts: 903
I never said skip. I said that there would be less built, because you would be investing gas into templar.

THAT many archons meaning 1-2? 3-4? 5-6? Also, it would take at least 3-5 sentries to put a concave of FFs around the back of an army, and 1-2 HT's to storm. This is assuming that you put everything into that army, and are not conducting drops. SO much gas.

Zealots to take out ghosts, lets see... Ghosts usually wouldn't be alone, and they, along with a small wall of marines, can take out zealots easily. Ghosts can be made easily off 5-6rax, while warping in zealots cripples your HT and other gateway unit production.


1. Silver (there I pulled the league card)
2. Protoss (like Zerg) costs a lot of gas in the late game That's just the way it is (Terrans too).
3. Watch some Terran Streams, they separate their Ghosts most of the time. And Ghosts can't be made until EIGHT Barracks. Not to mention Zealots are part of the CORE you a Protoss late-game army.

L
2
P

See that last post. Also, I'm just trying to help the community. Can't yell at me for that, can you?
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Posts: 7,572
11/12/2012 11:08 AMPosted by Elemental
See that last post. Also, I'm just trying to help the community. Can't yell at me for that, can you?


The only solution is to nerf Zerg or ruin PvT.
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Posts: 903
11/12/2012 11:10 AMPosted by VIPER
See that last post. Also, I'm just trying to help the community. Can't yell at me for that, can you?


The only solution is to nerf Zerg or ruin PvT.


.-. After all that trouble I went through to explain how.............
Forget it. Just forget it.
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Posts: 5,889
Really bad change.
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Posts: 903
11/12/2012 12:46 PMPosted by sTsTtzy
Really bad change.

Care to elaborate?
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Posts: 5,889
11/12/2012 12:47 PMPosted by Elemental
Really bad change.

Care to elaborate?


PvT problems. Colossus/ht death balls would be too fast for how hard they are to engage properly.
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11/12/2012 12:46 PMPosted by sTsTtzy
Really bad change.


my idea too?
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Posts: 903
11/12/2012 12:50 PMPosted by sTsTtzy

Care to elaborate?


PvT problems. Colossus/ht death balls would be too fast for how hard they are to engage properly.


Even with vikings and mech?
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Posts: 5,889
11/12/2012 12:52 PMPosted by ProdofVoid
Really bad change.


my idea too?

Your idea is much better, but I don't think it will change much.
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Posts: 903
11/12/2012 12:54 PMPosted by sTsTtzy


my idea too?

Your idea is much better, but I don't think it will change much.


Do you have a better suggestion?
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Posts: 2,508
Why aren't Templars faster? Is this a holdover from SC1 days? Or is it because they are too powerful if they move as fast as zealots?
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