StarCraft® II

I guess no one remembers the truth

Posts: 824
Terran was grossly overpowered at the start of the game. They DOMINATED tournaments over and over and over and over, with only the occasional Zerg or Protoss player making it to the finals. Their domination went on for over a year. Everyone agreed (except for the Terran players) that the game was broken.

Terran players came to these forums and TL and /r/starcraft and talked about how Zerg and Protoss players need to just learn how to play. "Use all of your units" they said; "The sample sizes for these tournaments are too small to make conclusions about balance" they said; "The better players just play Terran" they said...

Blizzard waited a few seasons to see if the "meta game" would shift back to a balanced state, but it did not. They finally began tweaking small timings like Stim, Ghosts, Bunkers and Hellions in the hopes of bringing the game back to the ~50% marker.

After several Terran nerfs, and the Terran players no longer had the inherent advantage in every game, the cries of "Terran is underpowered", and "Why did you nerf us so many times?", and "This game is hard now" began to flood these forums. The game was approaching a balanced state, but that didn't matter.

When they were confronted with the ugly truth about how ridiculously imbalanced their race was at the beginning of the game, they spouted back that the only reason Blizzard nerfed their race was that Zerg and Protoss players were complaining. YES THATS RIGHT, they believed that Blizzard nerfed Terran only because the other two races were complaining, and not because the cold, hard numbers clearly indicated an advantage for them.

Terran players complained endlessly about Protoss late game (claiming it was impossible), and didn't speak much about the TvZ matchup.

But now, here we are post-Queen patch and EVERYTHING that comes out of a Terran players mouth is about the Infestor. Apparently Protoss late game doesn't matter anymore. It's "the Infestor this" and "the Infestor that" and "its imbalanced" and "I don't want to make Ghosts because theyre not as strong as they used to be".

And now, the very thing that Terran players pointed their finger and screamed about for a year (that the only reason Blizzard nerfed them was because of the other two races complaining) is the exact same thing they are doing now......and ten times as much.

I don't remember Zerg or Protoss players crying this much about Ghosts or Stim or Bunkers while Terran had 60+% winrates. Now Terran players, so accustomed to pointing their fingers, are exhibiting the same behavior.

In the end, the game is balanced. Winrates are close to 50%, and tournaments share a variety of races. The Infestor is a stupid and powerful unit, but it is Blizzards band-aid fix to the rest of the underpowered Zerg race.
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Posts: 1,989
Lemme guess, OP's race is Zerg.

Wait what
Edited by rccars on 11/11/2012 3:02 PM PST
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Posts: 12,320
I don't remember Zerg or Protoss players crying this much about Ghosts or Stim or Bunkers while Terran had 60+% winrates.

One thing is that people kind of have an inflated vision of how important discussion on these forums are for determining balance. I'm not sure it was as disproportionate early on, but that has changed due to the few times complaints here were directly addressed.
People just notice situations where unrelated things correlate more often than they notice when they do not, like all the threads complaining about the Collosus, which has not been changed, yet sees little complaint now.
People claim complaints from Zerg are the reason snipe was nerfed, but then why has the Collosus/Forcefield remained the same? Simply because the complaints here are barely a small part of Blizzard's reason for even thinking about making changes.
Edited by Fawxkitteh on 11/11/2012 3:08 PM PST
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Posts: 1,198
Lemme guess, OP's race is Zerg.

Wait what


Probably isn't his main account.
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Posts: 11,261
Lemme guess, OP's race is Zerg.

Wait what


Smurf account. Only 46 career games.
Edited by Magnijung on 11/11/2012 3:05 PM PST
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Posts: 1,989
11/11/2012 03:04 PMPosted by Magnijung
Smurf account. Only 46 career games.


11/11/2012 03:03 PMPosted by AscendedOne
Probably isn't his main account.


Probably.
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Posts: 10,507
First post, I will suggest you make sure that any statistics you put in there are accurate (i.e. terran had 60% winrates) because people will pick apart your post to better suit their opinions and what better way than to try to convince the difference between 60% and 59%.

I just want to make sure you are posting accurate things; which outside of the statistics (which I don't know) looks quite sound.

11/11/2012 02:59 PMPosted by IllIllIllIll
In the end, the game is balanced. Winrates are close to 50%, and tournaments share a variety of races. The Infestor is a stupid and powerful unit, but it is Blizzards band-aid fix to the rest of the underpowered Zerg race.


^ Nicely put, rip the band aid off and you once again start bleeding. The problem with people who whine (about any form of balance) is that the ones that are vocal would rather whine than fix the problem.
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Posts: 4,589
To be fair, back when Terrans were dominating, a lot of them were really good players. You cannot deny that NaDa, MMA, Mvp, BoxeR and Lee Jung-Hoon are/were amazing players. Back then, how many amazing Zergs and Protoss were there?
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Posts: 4,464
Ya and Terran got nerfed. It's time to face up you Zerg fool and get your precious winfestor nerfed.
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11/11/2012 02:59 PMPosted by IllIllIllIll
I don't remember Zerg or Protoss players crying this much about Ghosts or Stim or Bunkers while Terran had 60+% winrates. Now Terran players, so accustomed to pointing their fingers, are exhibiting the same behavior.


If you don't have a terrible memory, this is a lie. What's happening now is pretty much the exact same thing that happened in the early stages of the game except reversed. Complaints are all about late game instead of early game, zergs have the blade rather than the shaft, protoss are still in the middle and terrans have the shaft instead of the blade.
Edited by sTsTtzy on 11/11/2012 3:10 PM PST
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Posts: 6,262
Lemme guess, OP's race is Zerg.

Wait what


Probably isn't his main account.
46 games and in diamond, yeah, you're right.
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Posts: 10,507
11/11/2012 03:08 PMPosted by FinnTheHuman
To be fair, back when Terrans were dominating, a lot of them were really good players. You cannot deny that NaDa, MMA, Mvp, BoxeR and Lee Jung-Hoon are/were amazing players. Back then, how many amazing Zergs and Protoss were there?


Careful; people often make the argument that better players populate zerg now. Look at those win rates and tell me who in their right mind would choose to be zerg or protoss. Remember the reaper? That was BRUTAL.

People now see infestors and don't want to be on the recieving end so I would say a lot of good players have migrated over. Doesn't mean they all are or that they aren't being carried by the race; but the win rates now are better than they were with terran when the game first came out if I remember it.
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11/11/2012 03:15 PMPosted by fingrknitter
but the win rates now are better than they were with terran when the game first came out if I remember it.


bingo
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Posts: 4,589
11/11/2012 03:15 PMPosted by fingrknitter
To be fair, back when Terrans were dominating, a lot of them were really good players. You cannot deny that NaDa, MMA, Mvp, BoxeR and Lee Jung-Hoon are/were amazing players. Back then, how many amazing Zergs and Protoss were there?


Careful; people often make the argument that better players populate zerg now. Look at those win rates and tell me who in their right mind would choose to be zerg or protoss. Remember the reaper? That was BRUTAL.

People now see infestors and don't want to be on the recieving end so I would say a lot of good players have migrated over. Doesn't mean they all are or that they aren't being carried by the race; but the win rates now are better than they were with terran when the game first came out if I remember it.


Ever hear the term "patch Zerg"? Sure, there's good Zergs that have always been good like Nestea, DRG, Leenock the Ghost Slayer, and Stephano (maybe). But there are a lot of Zergs like Life, Symbol, and a lot of Zergs that just happened to get good after the queen buff.
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Posts: 5,889
11/11/2012 03:41 PMPosted by FinnTheHuman


Careful; people often make the argument that better players populate zerg now. Look at those win rates and tell me who in their right mind would choose to be zerg or protoss. Remember the reaper? That was BRUTAL.

People now see infestors and don't want to be on the recieving end so I would say a lot of good players have migrated over. Doesn't mean they all are or that they aren't being carried by the race; but the win rates now are better than they were with terran when the game first came out if I remember it.


Ever hear the term "patch Zerg"? Sure, there's good Zergs that have always been good like Nestea, DRG, Leenock the Ghost Slayer, and Stephano (maybe). But there are a lot of Zergs like Life, Symbol, and a lot of Zergs that just happened to get good after the queen buff.


There also have been plenty of "good" terrans who I can't even remember because they weren't anywhere near relevant after terran started to get nerfed. Player skill is a pretty dumb point when you are arguing about balance. There are enough people playing this game to get an evenish distribution of great players between the three races.
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Posts: 6,558
First GSL champion was a Zerg.

/thread
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Posts: 6,990
Another Zerg terrified that their poor OP Winfestor is going to get nerfed.

Too bad, so sad. Tissues.

The Winfestor is getting nerfed, period. Deal with it.


Blizzard said they arn't nerfing it. Deal with it
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Posts: 25,814
11/11/2012 02:59 PMPosted by IllIllIllIll
I don't remember Zerg or Protoss players crying this much about Ghosts or Stim or Bunkers while Terran had 60+% winrates. Now Terran players, so accustomed to pointing their fingers, are exhibiting the same behavior.


i do.
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