I guess no one remembers the truth

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take THAT you smarmy Terran players! >:D
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Terran was grossly overpowered at the start of the game. They DOMINATED tournaments over and over and over and over, with only the occasional Zerg or Protoss player making it to the finals. Their domination went on for over a year. Everyone agreed (except for the Terran players) that the game was broken.

Terran players came to these forums and TL and /r/starcraft and talked about how Zerg and Protoss players need to just learn how to play. "Use all of your units" they said; "The sample sizes for these tournaments are too small to make conclusions about balance" they said; "The better players just play Terran" they said...

Blizzard waited a few seasons to see if the "meta game" would shift back to a balanced state, but it did not. They finally began tweaking small timings like Stim, Ghosts, Bunkers and Hellions in the hopes of bringing the game back to the ~50% marker.

After several Terran nerfs, and the Terran players no longer had the inherent advantage in every game, the cries of "Terran is underpowered", and "Why did you nerf us so many times?", and "This game is hard now" began to flood these forums. The game was approaching a balanced state, but that didn't matter.

When they were confronted with the ugly truth about how ridiculously imbalanced their race was at the beginning of the game, they spouted back that the only reason Blizzard nerfed their race was that Zerg and Protoss players were complaining. YES THATS RIGHT, they believed that Blizzard nerfed Terran only because the other two races were complaining, and not because the cold, hard numbers clearly indicated an advantage for them.

Terran players complained endlessly about Protoss late game (claiming it was impossible), and didn't speak much about the TvZ matchup.

But now, here we are post-Queen patch and EVERYTHING that comes out of a Terran players mouth is about the Infestor. Apparently Protoss late game doesn't matter anymore. It's "the Infestor this" and "the Infestor that" and "its imbalanced" and "I don't want to make Ghosts because theyre not as strong as they used to be".

And now, the very thing that Terran players pointed their finger and screamed about for a year (that the only reason Blizzard nerfed them was because of the other two races complaining) is the exact same thing they are doing now......and ten times as much.

I don't remember Zerg or Protoss players crying this much about Ghosts or Stim or Bunkers while Terran had 60+% winrates. Now Terran players, so accustomed to pointing their fingers, are exhibiting the same behavior.

In the end, the game is balanced. Winrates are close to 50%, and tournaments share a variety of races. The Infestor is a stupid and powerful unit, but it is Blizzards band-aid fix to the rest of the underpowered Zerg race.


lol Tournaments share a variety of races.

So look at it this way.

Beginning: Terran op, toss and zerg QQ. Terran nerfed.

Now: Zerg op, toss and terran QQ. Zerg balanced?

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_Battle.net_World_Championship

heres a good example of your variety of races in tournamanets
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Posts: 1,913
11/12/2012 03:40 AMPosted by AtlasMeCH
You sound like Obama blaming Bush.


You don't seem to understand the concept of direction.

The economy was heading in a direction when Obama took office.

It continued to stay in that direction, then slowed down and came to a halt.

Then, it starting to head in the opposite direction.

Logic is amazing is it not?


Your going to smirk with the word 'logic' after further torturing the 'direction' metaphore?' I don't think YOU understand 'direction' or over-used metaphores for purposes of political sound bitery.

Diection on or to what, the number line? Economies 'grow,' 'expand,' 'contract,' 'recess,' etc., but they don't 'go in directions.'

Although, I am told Greece's economy is going south...ba da BOOM!
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Posts: 6,931
All I know is that I don't understand why non-pros make Barcode names. What, do you think you're cool or something?
The excuse I've heard is to avoid a rematch. Which is dumb because I can just add you from the score screen and you'd never know it if I truly wanted a Rematch and seriously, who RE's anymore after a ladder game? That was a thing occasionally in BW but I haven't seen it happen once in SC2. I'm pretty sure it's a fad.

TL;DR when I see a Barcode name that isn't a pro I think they're like Justin Bieber.

11/11/2012 02:59 PMPosted by IllIllIllIll
Winrates are close to 50%, and tournaments share a variety of races.
Before the Queen buff, yes.
Edited by RuneK on 11/12/2012 9:23 AM PST
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Posts: 3,256
Another Infestor Thread...

Lick
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Posts: 3,256
Yes, I'm licking again, and if anybody has a problem with it, TOO BAD, cause I've been doing it for months now and nobody has even come close to noticing. Now, with the infestors OP threads going around, the higher volume of infestor threads has let me lick more, and only NOW you notice it. Proof?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7006246910?#10

I'm talking to you rccars
Edited by EugeneTwo on 11/12/2012 9:32 AM PST
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Posts: 1,913
Yes, I'm licking again, and if anybody has a problem with it, TOO BAD, cause I've been doing it for months now and nobody has even come close to noticing. Now, with the infestors OP threads going around, the higher volume of infestor threads has let me lick more, and only NOW you notice it. Proof?

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7006246910?#10

I'm talking to you rccars


I think I down-voted you twice...THREE!
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Posts: 128
No gripes or emotionally charged accusations or claims here, this is just what my gold-league playing self has observed. I do watch a lot of pro matches, if that means anything.

I think Zerg is pretty strong right now. I have a feeling that most of it has to do with maps, because they're very friendly for macro (as opposed to something like Xel'Naga Caverns). I think that the best solution could be to just buff high templar and ghosts against infestors, increase the hatch time of infested terrans, and make fungal a projectile. Fungal should still be able to hit air, because Zerg AA is still really difficult as it is. I think that we should all quit pointing fingers and I feel like claims that are based on pure anger or wanting to have an unfair advantage (as exemplified by the TL survey on infestor changes) is bad for the game. We need to strive for a balanced game, not for our main race to have the advantage. I still think that the best thing could just be maps. I think that changing the supply of infestors from 2 to 3 would also be way too much. Take that all for what it is worth and let's all just try to work together to make the game more balanced :)
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Posts: 2,508
11/12/2012 08:50 AMPosted by Pointy
take THAT you smarmy Terran players! >:D


Omg smarmy is a real word lol:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=smarmy
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Posts: 37
11/11/2012 03:50 PMPosted by HeReTiC
You sound like Obama blaming Bush.


that is more slippery then wallstreet i suggest you stop talking about that
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11/12/2012 09:09 AMPosted by Sneegy
Although, I am told Greece's economy is going south...ba da BOOM!
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Posts: 7
as a zerg player i am not going rant on about how the infestor is not op because it and trying to stay away form it on the na server just see how thing play out and turns out a zerg player can not a big fight without it with is not good i do not like because the infestor can be used for lots of thing but i do not want to need to be used for all da thinga makes the game and fun to watch i the only fun race to watch is toss but when a zerg player dose a heavy muta build it is good to watch because to do it pushes ur apm a lot it is ez to mes up ur macro and then just lose the but when a zerg dose a heavy brood infestor play there is skill in it because so u just win it is like a bio ball v +3.3 toss 200/200 army who do you think is going to win and also i think bllz are doing something about the infestor after the wcs or nasl not sure not to good with names :D
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Posts: 32
Even if you say the game is balanced now, there is still a problem with Terran: weak T3. I'm not a pro-player but I watched a lot of pro games and I can say that Infestors are used nearly all the time. BLs, and Ultras are used a lot. Colossi are used a lot. HTs are used a lot.

With Terran, Thors are used sometimes Ravens can only be used in specific situations and BCs are almost never used.

If Terrans aren't using their full arsenal of units, there's a problem with Terrans. And for all you zerg and toss players, don't tell me that Terrans should learn to use their T3 play as Terran and post a replay of you using it. Show us how, if you're so smart. The game had been out for over 2 years now, if Terran players hadn't found a good use for their T3, theyre probably not going to anytime soon.
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11/11/2012 02:59 PMPosted by IllIllIllIll
I don't remember Zerg or Protoss players crying this much about Ghosts or Stim or Bunkers while Terran had 60+% winrates


OMG I LOL'ed so HARD.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3881721079
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/791239497
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2973395258
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2973395258

There are hundreds upon hundreds of these threads.

In the end everybody and every race is the same. People from each races whine when they feel like they are at a disadvantage.

OP , you're a very deluded person if you think Terran players are ANY different that Zerg or Protoss players, in regards to their attitude and behaviour.
Edited by HeavyFresh on 11/12/2012 11:23 AM PST
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The difference is that those stats got Nerfed
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11/11/2012 02:59 PMPosted by IllIllIllIll
They DOMINATED tournaments over and over and over and over, with only the occasional Zerg or Protoss player making it to the finals.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOMTV_Global_Starcraft_II_League

Ironic, Zerg won the first 2 GSL and still complained about being UP.

Everything the OP said is true though. Granted Terran was grossly OP Aug 2010-March 2011, since then all Zerg baby.
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Posts: 3,256
11/12/2012 11:17 AMPosted by HeavyFresh
I don't remember Zerg or Protoss players crying this much about Ghosts or Stim or Bunkers while Terran had 60+% winrates


OMG I LOL'ed so HARD.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3881721079
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/791239497
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2973395258
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2973395258

There are hundreds upon hundreds of these threads.

In the end everybody and every race is the same. People from each races whine when they feel like they are at a disadvantage.

OP , you're a very deluded person if you think Terran players are ANY different that Zerg or Protoss players, in regards to their attitude and behaviour.

WARNING, SEISMIC DISTURBANCE DETECTED, NECROBUMPS INBOUND
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Posts: 2,429
Even i agree that Terran was OP before.. but this is not a game where you should have an OP race per season.. as all players we all like balance.. and balance is not 1 unit that massed grants victory in an easy way
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Posts: 6,931
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOMTV_Global_Starcraft_II_League

Ironic, Zerg won the first 2 GSL and still complained about being UP.

Everything the OP said is true though. Granted Terran was grossly OP Aug 2010-March 2011, since then all Zerg baby.
Yet never Protoss. It's almost as if the same trend continues since BW.
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