StarCraft® II

I guess no one remembers the truth

Posts: 10,506
Your oldest post is from july 2011 - a year after release.

I'm assuming that's when you started posting here, or you had a name change, as you specifically mentioned 2010-2011, which is the period where you were not on these forums.


Yes my oldest post is 2011, However if you look at my past seasons I've been here since season 1 playing. I also saw many beta casts, first tourneys, in the first year which is why I know there was a lot of complaining.
Back when roach was 3 range, and high templar can warp in storm.
There were many complainers and because I am posting a year after the game came out doesn't really change anything since I was playing since season 1
I wasn't posting because I didn't want to post anything because I never thought I had too. The only reason I posted once was because I was beyond frustrated with ghosts because they seemed ridiculously good against protoss and I raged on the forums which is why I ended up here a year later. I have been playing since season 1 when zerg would 1 base muta which was terrible but they would try it over and over.

2011 had a ton of complaining viewed by my posts, if you want more evidence your more than welcome to go back to the 2010 pages and see everyone getting along apparently. That just wasn't the case, everyone was complaining and everyone is still complaining. Just on different sides.


I think he was just confused because going from one post to the next it seemed like you said you had posted in 2010 to 2011 and Snow saw that you hadn't posted then and was...therefor confused.
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Posts: 853
I remember. Every single terran unit was so overpowered that builds massing one unit were tremendously strong. Morrow won the first big SC2 tournament using 5 rax reaper to kill every zerg fyi and 2 port banshee was the other terran go-to. The only reason terran didn't win everything is because they were all so bad from one basing every single game and winning, that if a game ever went long they'd completely fall apart.

Not to mention all the maps were absurdly terran favored. Tiny maps with short rush distances and gold bases. As a zerg you'd see terran leave their base and not have enough time to morph a batch of zerglings before he's killing your drones. Siege tanks could leap frog 2-3 times and be in range if your hatchery.

Terran most OP race in WOL for over a year, never forget.
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Posts: 1,336
Yeah I guess thats why Zerg won the first GSL.

You don't speak for anyone but yourself. My problem is with Protoss. So stop your crying OP, you sound like a little girl. You are just as bad as the Terran's you are trying to insult.
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Posts: 1,067
Yeah I guess thats why Zerg won the first GSL.

You don't speak for anyone but yourself. My problem is with Protoss. So stop your crying OP, you sound like a little girl. You are just as bad as the Terran's you are trying to insult.


first 2 gsl's as a matter of fact. Fruit dealer then nestea, Then a protoss won it, Then nestea won it again. The first time terran ever won a gsl was at gsl 5 .

SUCH DOMINATION FROM TERRAN IN THE EARLY DAYS LOL . more giggles.. YA RIGHTTTTTTTTTT.

FACT

GSL TITLES

TERRAN = Mvp 4 times, MMA ,jakchi,polt
ZERG= Nestea 3 times, Fruit dealer,Dong Rae Gu, Life
PROTOSS= MC 2 times and seed.

TOTAL
TERRAN = 7
ZERG =6
PROTOSS= 3

If people going to claim terran was grossly imba, they better say the same about zerg.
Edited by Incinerate on 11/13/2012 5:17 PM PST
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Posts: 10,506
Honestly I think most people are taking this thread the wrong way. In my interpretation of the OP it is simply trying to get Terrans to admit that they were OP because I see a lot of balance posts where terrans will refuse to accept that (knowingly or not) and he is just trying to get everyone to see that...this is nothing new, that is the imbalance. He is also trying to suggest we all take into account the current win rates and they are, in fact not that far off. <--Not saying that infestors aren't boring as hell and should be nerfed with the buff of the hydra.

What I honestly don't think I see enough is people sniping tech instead of drones because I think we all know how well that goes...

...and it really should be an objective of anyone playing against zerg (production of every unit is tied to ONE structure, like having all robo bays on one pylon). I try to make a point of sniping the greater spire/hive any game that I can and if you do (pros included) it is DEVASTATING.

What I think we will see people doing is hitting to snipe the infestation pit which also delays hive. I personally am not good enough to say whether or not it is viable, would appreciate a comment on that.
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Posts: 3,825
The game was pretty terran favored for the first few months.

There were a few blatant exceptions like warp in storms or pre 5 minute warp gate but aside from that the game looked generally terran favored.

I'd say that in general the game has returned to a somewhat balanced state. Zerg is definitely strong and probably better than terran and protoss. That's not too bad considering that a really good terran player can still beat out the best zergs in the world just because of how rewarding extremely potent micro and decision making is with terran.

However there are a lot of issues that need to be tackled including the issue of infestors being the best and sometimes the only zerg unit you would need. Stronger hydras and even banelings or mutas is probably better if infestors get nerfed.

Protoss's lack of a viable late game vs zerg really needs to be addressed. Thors either need a good ability or no ability and energy at all.

Ravens have one of the worst AEO abilities in any RTS I have seen. Seeker Missile is borderline suicidal and is not as readily used because of how dangerous it is to make and control ravens.

Aside from that Auto Turret coming up to the power of Infested Terran would be nice. It might actually give Terran the ability to make Ravens late game TvP.

Most of the qq about this game is mostly hey:

Building 40 infestors might be good and even balanced but it is extremely gimmicky and really relies on Terran's counter to infestors being bad.

Why on earth are hydras slow and fragile.

How can a high templar counter a thor specifically because the ability is unusable.

Why does every lategame PvZ come down to a vortex.
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Posts: 102
Guys, can't you see that you're stuck in a never ending vicious cycle of insanity? One race gets nerfed, the other 2 complain, then one gets buffed, the other 2 complain.. etc, etc.. If the win rates stay as close to 50% for each race it should be good enough. I'm a lower league Terran and I haven't really had to complain about any imbalances, not that it would matter, but I am more convinced that player skill will always be more important than any "balance" arguments. For example TaeJa is a good example of Terran still alive in the scene.
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Posts: 1,732
11/13/2012 02:55 PMPosted by fingrknitter
This is such a joke. You think people REFUSED to find solutions? People who were playing zerg and protoss were being paid (going pro) back then like they are now and you think they didn't try? You are ignorant and elitist if you think so; zerg and protoss have since release been patched to actually HAVE options while terran has been taken off their high horse to the state of the other races.

I never said that they refused to find solutions. Ever. At any time. As I said in the first paragraph when zerg couldn't hold off the 2 base all in they started to get 3 bases and then protoss was on the back foot and had to change their play style. Starcraft is a game about countering what your opponent is doing with good micro and macro. Since terran was nerfed the most they technically changed their play style a lot more. Im not saying the other races didn't change at all they just didn't change as much (what I said in my original post may contradict this but this is sort of what I was trying to get at).
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Posts: 354
11/11/2012 02:59 PMPosted by IllIllIllIll
Terran was grossly overpowered at the start of the game.


This is a load of junk... You make it seem like terran was the only race that was adjusted in 2010. You don't point out things like how they lowered void ray damage or increased roach range, both during the first year. There have been numerous changes to all races since this game came out.
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Look everyone, its the Great Wall of Text...
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Posts: 824
11/13/2012 02:32 AMPosted by Reno
There is so much wrong with Zerg. Infestor is the root of a lot of it.


You are mistaken. Infestors are the band aid holding the issues at bay.


EXACTLY.
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Posts: 10,506
11/13/2012 06:18 PMPosted by AamDamnd
This is such a joke. You think people REFUSED to find solutions? People who were playing zerg and protoss were being paid (going pro) back then like they are now and you think they didn't try? You are ignorant and elitist if you think so; zerg and protoss have since release been patched to actually HAVE options while terran has been taken off their high horse to the state of the other races.

I never said that they refused to find solutions. Ever. At any time. As I said in the first paragraph when zerg couldn't hold off the 2 base all in they started to get 3 bases and then protoss was on the back foot and had to change their play style. Starcraft is a game about countering what your opponent is doing with good micro and macro. Since terran was nerfed the most they technically changed their play style a lot more. Im not saying the other races didn't change at all they just didn't change as much (what I said in my original post may contradict this but this is sort of what I was trying to get at).


Hey I very much appreciate this very nice reply :) Very well mannered seriously, the fact you said you may be contradicting yourself; honestly you have to be like one of the top ten posters here and for this reply number one no joke. I apologize sincerely for my post and I hope everyone who read mine reads this one.

I am sorry for getting so annoyed and blowing up at you, it is just that I am sick of people acting as if their "races" are different; this often will happen with people who play terran just for the fact that, I am sure not very many people "switched" into terran as opposed to zerg and protoss as terran has become more balanced and the ones left REALLY want terran to do well because they won't hop the band wagon and stay dedicated.

Again I am sorry, it just seemed a lot different in your first post, I just don't like the "terran innovates" more preaching because terran has had the most options, hence all the nerfs. Blizzard isn't out to get them: can't say the same about hots JKJK XD

Again though, thank you for being so patient with me :) I usually try to stay composed and I blew up at the wrong person and i feel bad for it :S Keep posting, you do the forums a favor with your exaltedness ;)
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Posts: 10,506
The game was pretty terran favored for the first few months.

There were a few blatant exceptions like warp in storms or pre 5 minute warp gate but aside from that the game looked generally terran favored.

I'd say that in general the game has returned to a somewhat balanced state. Zerg is definitely strong and probably better than terran and protoss. That's not too bad considering that a really good terran player can still beat out the best zergs in the world just because of how rewarding extremely potent micro and decision making is with terran.

However there are a lot of issues that need to be tackled including the issue of infestors being the best and sometimes the only zerg unit you would need. Stronger hydras and even banelings or mutas is probably better if infestors get nerfed.

Protoss's lack of a viable late game vs zerg really needs to be addressed. Thors either need a good ability or no ability and energy at all.

Ravens have one of the worst AEO abilities in any RTS I have seen. Seeker Missile is borderline suicidal and is not as readily used because of how dangerous it is to make and control ravens.

Aside from that Auto Turret coming up to the power of Infested Terran would be nice. It might actually give Terran the ability to make Ravens late game TvP.

Most of the qq about this game is mostly hey:

Building 40 infestors might be good and even balanced but it is extremely gimmicky and really relies on Terran's counter to infestors being bad.

Why on earth are hydras slow and fragile.

How can a high templar counter a thor specifically because the ability is unusable.

Why does every lategame PvZ come down to a vortex.


This is one of the best posts I have seen in a long time, thank you very much :)
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Posts: 4,984


You are mistaken. Infestors are the band aid holding the issues at bay.


EXACTLY.


And of the course the best decision is to just leave the bandaid there and never change the infestor or the rest of the Zerg race. Good game design dictates that Zerg should just limp on as a race centered around one unit.
Edited by BossBobRoss on 11/13/2012 8:27 PM PST
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Posts: 3,017
lol u guys got trolled bad, stop feeding the troll
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Posts: 421
11/13/2012 08:32 PMPosted by BronzeAddict
lol u guys got trolled bad, stop feeding the troll

You're honestly stupid aren't you? His post wasn't claiming IMBA this OP that. He was giving a brief history of the history of the game and how the blame has shifted from one race to another.

I swear, some people just insert "Troll" whenever they feel like being a douche to someone.
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Posts: 4,556
11/13/2012 08:13 PMPosted by Vhailor
Terran was grossly overpowered at the start of the game.


This is a load of junk... You make it seem like terran was the only race that was adjusted in 2010. You don't point out things like how they lowered void ray damage or increased roach range, both during the first year. There have been numerous changes to all races since this game came out.


Nah, he's right. Terran was broken as hell.
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Posts: 4,984
lol u guys got trolled bad, stop feeding the troll

You're honestly stupid aren't you? His post wasn't claiming IMBA this OP that. He was giving a brief history of the history of the game and how the blame has shifted from one race to another.

I swear, some people just insert "Troll" whenever they feel like being a douche to someone.


Except he claims that the other 2 races never had people who complained as much as Terran players do now. Which is completely untrue.
Edited by BossBobRoss on 11/13/2012 8:59 PM PST
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Posts: 160
+1
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Posts: 1,744
Terran was grossly overpowered at the start of the game. They DOMINATED tournaments over and over and over and over, with only the occasional Zerg or Protoss player making it to the finals. Their domination went on for over a year. Everyone agreed (except for the Terran players) that the game was broken.

Terran players came to these forums and TL and /r/starcraft and talked about how Zerg and Protoss players need to just learn how to play. "Use all of your units" they said; "The sample sizes for these tournaments are too small to make conclusions about balance" they said; "The better players just play Terran" they said...
Blizzard waited a few seasons to see if the "meta game" would shift back to a balanced state, but it did not. They finally began tweaking small timings like Stim, Ghosts, Bunkers and Hellions in the hopes of bringing the game back to the ~50% marker.

After several Terran nerfs, and the Terran players no longer had the inherent advantage in every game, the cries of "Terran is underpowered", and "Why did you nerf us so many times?", and "This game is hard now" began to flood these forums. The game was approaching a balanced state, but that didn't matter.

When they were confronted with the ugly truth about how ridiculously imbalanced their race was at the beginning of the game, they spouted back that the only reason Blizzard nerfed their race was that Zerg and Protoss players were complaining. YES THATS RIGHT, they believed that Blizzard nerfed Terran only because the other two races were complaining, and not because the cold, hard numbers clearly indicated an advantage for them.

Terran players complained endlessly about Protoss late game (claiming it was impossible), and didn't speak much about the TvZ matchup.

But now, here we are post-Queen patch and EVERYTHING that comes out of a Terran players mouth is about the Infestor. Apparently Protoss late game doesn't matter anymore. It's "the Infestor this" and "the Infestor that" and "its imbalanced" and "I don't want to make Ghosts because theyre not as strong as they used to be".

And now, the very thing that Terran players pointed their finger and screamed about for a year (that the only reason Blizzard nerfed them was because of the other two races complaining) is the exact same thing they are doing now......and ten times as much.

I don't remember Zerg or Protoss players crying this much about Ghosts or Stim or Bunkers while Terran had 60+% winrates. Now Terran players, so accustomed to pointing their fingers, are exhibiting the same behavior.

In the end, the game is balanced. Winrates are close to 50%, and tournaments share a variety of races. The Infestor is a stupid and powerful unit, but it is Blizzards band-aid fix to the rest of the underpowered Zerg race.


b1tch please, i call bullsht
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