StarCraft® II

Trading infestor nerf for Marine nerf and...

Posts: 240
11/13/2012 04:19 PMPosted by Essex
feel like the other races need to be explored, rather than people whine about things they dont understand, like the infestor


+1
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Posts: 4,589
11/13/2012 04:01 PMPosted by Essex
Unlike infestors, Marines are a core unit. Infestors could arguably be a core unit, but they are more of an abused support caster. Also changing Marines would screw Terran against Protoss.


infestors are a core unit because without it, entire zerg race would be countered by tier 1 units by the time zerg reaches mid-game.

terran doesnt need marines against toss. they rely on marauders for the damage and tanking, and if colosus come by, there are vikings for that. infact, all terran needs against protoss to win are marauders, ghosts, and vikings, and maybe a few marines for added dps.


Infestors are not a core unit. Stop kidding with yourself. The race is not centered around it. Zerg is centered around the larva mechanic. Because of that, Zerg core units are lings, banelings, and roaches. But of course, these units are very larva-intensive meaning that you actually have to be on top of your injects.

About the "fungal is needed to beat marines" excuse, people don't realize that there's other ways for Zerg to do splash damage. Ling/baneling's strength is lings' ability to surround while banelings kill the trapped marines (see Destiny's Baneling Analogy).
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Posts: 1,412
Marines are a very early game unit, earlier than Sentries or Infestors. Sentries are also earlier than Infestors. Marines could not be rebalanced without having to change the entire early game UNLESS you just changed Marines' upgrades. Same basic idea goes for Sentries.
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Posts: 231
11/13/2012 04:48 PMPosted by FinnTheHuman


infestors are a core unit because without it, entire zerg race would be countered by tier 1 units by the time zerg reaches mid-game.

terran doesnt need marines against toss. they rely on marauders for the damage and tanking, and if colosus come by, there are vikings for that. infact, all terran needs against protoss to win are marauders, ghosts, and vikings, and maybe a few marines for added dps.


Infestors are not a core unit. Stop kidding with yourself. The race is not centered around it. Zerg is centered around the larva mechanic. Because of that, Zerg core units are lings, banelings, and roaches. But of course, these units are very larva-intensive meaning that you actually have to be on top of your injects.

About the "fungal is needed to beat marines" excuse, people don't realize that there's other ways for Zerg to do splash damage. Ling/baneling's strength is lings' ability to surround while banelings kill the trapped marines (see Destiny's Baneling Analogy).


just another terran QQ.

11/13/2012 04:52 PMPosted by Engineer
Marines are a very early game unit, earlier than Sentries or Infestors. Sentries are also earlier than Infestors. Marines could not be rebalanced without having to change the entire early game UNLESS you just changed Marines' upgrades. Same basic idea goes for Sentries.


reduce/remove marine upgrades, i like that idea.
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Posts: 4,589
11/13/2012 06:17 PMPosted by Essex
just another terran QQ


I play random.
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Posts: 231
11/13/2012 06:55 PMPosted by FinnTheHuman
just another terran QQ


I play random.


I play random too.You see what i did there?
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Posts: 124
11/13/2012 04:06 PMPosted by Essex
ol, and what, rely only on 1 build? that actually reduces zerg options and variety. do you want games versus zerg to be stale and only rely on 1 build?


like zergs do now?
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Posts: 52
If Marines are Nerfed, I'll quit StarCraft 2 and I hope they dont' get nerfed cuz of some whiners. Without marines, Terran is as good as dead.
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Posts: 4,589
11/13/2012 07:04 PMPosted by HeReTiC
Where does the idea of needing to supplement a nerf come from? If something like the infestor is actually overpowered, then a nerf doesn't need to be complemented by a buff; the nerf itself will--or should--provide balance.


It comes from the mindset that many people have that Zerg revolves around the infestor.

11/13/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Killer
If Marines are Nerfed, I'll quit StarCraft 2 and I hope they dont' get nerfed cuz of some whiners. Without marines, Terran is as good as dead.


Here we go! That's a unit that can't be nerfed, because it actually is a core unit.
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Posts: 4,984
11/13/2012 04:19 PMPosted by Essex
i just feel like people whine too much, no hypocritical stances intended. i just feel like zerg options are limited and the reduction of a units effectiveness for an already under-optioned race, is just petrifying.


Hypocrisy usually isn't intended. Read the above quote for an example.

i feel like the other races need to be explored, rather than people whine about things they dont understand, like the infestor.

after 150 games, i have never seen a ghost use emp against me, or templar give my infestors feedback. honestly, the community is just bogus


And I almost never saw Zerg players use pre-patch infestors with the 8 second fungal. It was all about building up a muta ball while teching to hive for BLs. Many people agreed that infestors seemed to have potential too.
Edited by BossBobRoss on 11/13/2012 8:37 PM PST
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Posts: 3,415
11/13/2012 04:19 PMPosted by Essex
i have never seen a ghost use emp against me, or templar give my infestors feedback.
because they dont counter infestor. emp only out range fungal by 0.5 infestor are super fat which means 1 emp should only hit 1 infestor however infestor can land fungal before emp land on infestor 1 ghost should only emp 1 infestor, which means GHOST DO NOT COUNTER INFESTOR. ht counter infestor are u stupid? it is like saying ultra counter immortal.
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Posts: 3,485
11/13/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Killer
If Marines are Nerfed, I'll quit StarCraft 2 and I hope they dont' get nerfed cuz of some whiners. Without marines, Terran is as good as dead.


not true at all. terrans focus is shifting towards mech play.

the marine is insanely expensive to counter for zerg because the baneling tends to die before it hits the target a great majority of the time. it costs 75/25 to get a single baneling which is already double the marines cost but the baneling does not one shot a marine so you need at minimum of 2 blings to kill just a single marine. Not to mention that we lose the baneling anyway. A counter isnt a counter if it cannot possibly survive the engagement! now yes this can also kill 5 marines just the same as one but any zerg who plays zvz can tell you that its doable. only difference is marines use range where as zerg we have to do it melee which is 1000x harder
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Posts: 752
11/13/2012 03:58 PMPosted by PotatoLiSK
Unlike infestors, Marines are a core unit. Infestors could arguably be a core unit, but they are more of an abused support caster. Also changing Marines would screw Terran against Protoss.


Zerg have no 'core' unit so what change are you suggesting? Oh none? So you just want infestors nerfed but sentry/marine are out of the question because they're CORE units. I see. S CORE units are like an NFL Franchise player?

Okay Zerg will now select the infestor as their CORE unit. CORE units cannot be changed or nerfed in any way, shape or form as they are simply hardCORE.
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Posts: 4,589
Unlike infestors, Marines are a core unit. Infestors could arguably be a core unit, but they are more of an abused support caster. Also changing Marines would screw Terran against Protoss.


Zerg have no 'core' unit so what change are you suggesting? Oh none? So you just want infestors nerfed but sentry/marine are out of the question because they're CORE units. I see. S CORE units are like an NFL Franchise player?

Okay Zerg will now select the infestor as their CORE unit. CORE units cannot be changed or nerfed in any way, shape or form as they are simply hardCORE.


For !@#$'s sake! The Infestor is not a core unit! Zerglings, Banelings, and roaches are. Infestors may be larva-light and easy to use, but they are not required to win. Try Muta/Ling/Bling again. You'll probably lose a few games at first, but that's because it's very positional and larva-intensive.
Edited by FinnTheHuman on 11/13/2012 8:50 PM PST
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Posts: 3,734
as a diamond zerg player, I'll be happy to trade a nerf for the infestor so that marines and forcefield get a major nerf.

we all know forcefield denies micro, and is too game deciding, and is spammable. in fact, this skill is the protoss version of fungal as it denies micro, traps units for inevitable death, cannot be countered when casted. Is it imbalanced? Of course! if fungal gets nerfed, so should this skill too.

marines... the only zerg counters to marines are banelings and infestors. if fungal gets nerfed, marines force auto gg against zerg. marines+split against banelings, gg.


Ill say the same thing I said on another thread...

"This isn't negating micro.Forcefields cut units off but the units can still move, even burrow, or fly away. Fungals stop flying units, Cloaked,burrow units and no unit can move after it is casted.

That is literally the definition of negating micro, it means you can't micro because you aren't allowed to. Forcefields still allow you to micro even if you catch a ball or roaches because you can burrow underneath or if your a flying unit like vikings, you can fly away. Fungal cancels blink so you can't blink away, you can't burrow away, it reveals burrow, you can't fly away. I mean there not even close to similar.

Terrible comparison."
Edited by Drathjon on 11/13/2012 8:53 PM PST
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Posts: 3,347
11/13/2012 08:49 PMPosted by FinnTheHuman
Infestors may be larva-light and easy to use, but they are not required to win.


I really want to agree with you Finn, but, I hate to say, I think you're wrong about this one. Infestors have become a core-unit because of the very needed versatility they bring. In the same vein that marines bring so much to the table, overshadowing other units, the infestor fills the needed holes the other units can't provide; thus, it has become an essential portion of any composition.

A core-unit is not defined by being placed in tier 1. It needs to be the structure that holds the composition together.

I'm surprised you brought up mutalisks. I'm pretty sure you're in the HOTS beta as well. You should know the new limitations of going ling/bane/muta against either Terran or Protoss.
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Posts: 182
Marines? You want something done about Marines?

If they removed the investor and made you pay a penance of half your resources every time you remembered they existed, it wouldn't make the Marine good enough to be able to withstand another nerf.
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Posts: 4,589
Infestors may be larva-light and easy to use, but they are not required to win.


I really want to agree with you Finn, but, I hate to say, I think you're wrong about this one. Infestors have become a core-unit because of the very needed versatility they bring. In the same vein that marines bring so much to the table, overshadowing other units, the infestor fills the needed holes the other units can't provide; thus, it has become an essential portion of any composition.

A core-unit is not defined by being placed in tier 1. It needs to be the structure that holds the composition together.

I'm surprised you brought up mutalisks. I'm pretty sure you're in the HOTS beta as well. You should know the new limitations of going ling/bane/muta against either Terran or Protoss.


Ultralisk/Swarm Host/Speed Hydra works against Protoss as well as Terran mech. I've tried mutas against Protoss, but I don't quite have the control. Though, if Terran goes bio or marine/tank, I can crush it with Muta/Ling/Bling.

But, it might have something to do with my love of double evo very early and out-upgrading my opponent.
Edited by FinnTheHuman on 11/13/2012 9:29 PM PST
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Posts: 4,735
Winfester nerf is coming whether you like it or not.

Trading it for a Marine nerf? Get the hell out.
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