StarCraft® II

Well we can stop all the "Z is OP" now

Posts: 3,105
11/17/2012 10:13 PMPosted by TimeRocker
But even still, why didnt the korean z's make it? Or even make it to the tournament itself. Just doesnt seem logic. This game has always swayed towards one race or another based on new findings/builds with the races. I still remember when marines were untouchable, and now its mostly mech, and 4 gate was unstoppable. Was only a matter of time until Z had its run, and its not gonna last forever


cause for about a month protoss was dominating with 7gate 1/1 immortal push.

then it got figured out.(this happens in pvz a lot, P does a cute timing push, has a high winrate for a while, then it gets figured out)
Edited by max on 11/17/2012 10:26 PM PST
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Posts: 13,582
11/17/2012 10:22 PMPosted by Omega
Spines are stationary and can be seen way before an engagement. He just made a terrible call engaging there AND attempting to Archon Toilet when his ground forces can't even get in the Vortex.


So the multiple expansion kills, harassing the main, controlling the entire game, is now determined by missing one archon toilet?

How about counters to the build that aren't gimmicks? Or rather how about one counter that isn't the only gimmick that works?
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Posts: 1,289
Hero threw that game away by being impatient, ugh. Sen was in a terrible terrible position, all he had were those broodlords and infestors, he had nothing to defend against Hero's warp prism harassment.

If Hero just kept massing gates and sustained his drop harass he would have cut of Sen from the gas in his main and natural. Cut off those 4 gases, send small harasses of blink stalkers into the 5th and 6th to free up pop for carriers, Sen would have been dead.

But Hero for some strange reason threw away a winning position and just a-moved into the ONLY entrenched position on the map. That was just a huge choke.
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Posts: 124
wait? the 3rd on Tal'Darim has rocks still? What hell the F
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Posts: 564
a-move = hitting two near perfect vortexes on 90% of the broodlords and infestors?
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Posts: 3,841


Right, which is why I questioned that engagement in that angle in the first place.


You have to attack. If you let the zerg max on BL/infestor then it doesn't matter that they're only on 3 mined-out bases while you have infinity money. A maxed army can't make a noticeable dent on the ball. 2 remaxes won't kill it either.

In PvZ zerg takes their third at 4 minutes and literally can do perfectly fine without expanding again for the next 20 minutes.


I agree you need to attack before the Deathball is complete. I just question the location of engagement, particularly an angle that already has been well fortified by spines and a narrow choke.
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Posts: 13,785
But even still, why didnt the korean z's make it? Or even make it to the tournament itself.


WCS asia.

they all lost to korean terrans who lost to korean protosses.
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Posts: 4,610
Hero has a habit of losing to poor engagements in lategame ZvP.
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Posts: 161
those games come down to really obvious BLUNDERS from hero and really great decision making involved from sen

most of you are going to probably disagree call zerg OP and say protoss takes much more skill... the reason you will say this is because you dont understand what you just saw and dont understand how the numbers work... yes its frustrating to see this happen to hero but he's on a huge tilt vs zerg in general and has thrown away game after game to them lately games he SHOULD win thats why he looks how he does i doubt he is blaming balance right now
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Posts: 240
People will always quickly jump onto the OP band wagon before analyzing the game. Hero had 200 energy on his mothership, and sen split his bl into 2 groups. instead of using 2 vortexes on each group and sending half of his archons into each, he did 1 vortex WAY in front of sens army and did nothing with it. It was just a bad micro choice on his part. Starcraft is a game where you can be way behind, but make 1 huge mistake and screw u up entirely. U can have 100 marines, walk over 10 burrowed banelings while im on 2 base and ur on 3 and come back purely cuz of 1 micro decision/indecision. Its how this game works, and people either forget that or refuse to accept it
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Posts: 1,051
11/17/2012 10:49 PMPosted by TimeRocker
People will always quickly jump onto the OP band wagon before analyzing the game. Hero had 200 energy on his mothership, and sen split his bl into 2 groups. instead of using 2 vortexes on each group and sending half of his archons into each, he did 1 vortex WAY in front of sens army and did nothing with it. It was just a bad micro choice on his part. Starcraft is a game where you can be way behind, but make 1 huge mistake and screw u up entirely. U can have 100 marines, walk over 10 burrowed banelings while im on 2 base and ur on 3 and come back purely cuz of 1 micro decision/indecision. Its how this game works, and people either forget that or refuse to accept it


Yup. If Hero had done nothing but PULLED HIS ARCHONS BACK, he would have won. Instead he lost all his archons to poor micro against the infested terran wall, which he was not even attacking, and he could have moved his archons into the other vortex instead. He also delayed moving his archons into the toilet. Instead, he gave away 9 archons for free.

Basically he did the worst possible thing he could have done in that engagement.
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Posts: 14,677
11/17/2012 10:02 PMPosted by TimeRocker
All the players left are P except for Sen atm. Infestor still op? Tired of seeing that on streams and forums. "Winfestors" havent helped in making it to the finals, so idk where people are getting this stuff from
No.

"Winfestors" are the ONLY reason PvZ has been such a struggle for Protosses who are outclassing the Zergs with their skill. That Sen series was just disgusting at the end... Even more was the Titan vs Curious games...
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Posts: 1,299
yeah beating zerg before the winfestor is out is the only way to win. Greedy 3 base zergs should auto lose to 2 base toss.
Edited by Fox on 11/18/2012 12:38 AM PST
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