what if raptor came to multiplayer

Posts: 3,485
How would it affect the game? At first common sense says holy overpowered batman cliff jumping lings would own all.But think about it if the upgrade came at lair or hive tech. The terrans with both widow mines,Pfs, and battle hellions can crush packs of lings with little to no probelms with just aoe dmg they do. a sensor tower and a few well placed units that arent particularly expensive would make this pretty defendable. Even just a bunker behind the mineral line might suffice.

Toss with timewarp/storm are gonna be crushing these low tech armies all day although that would still probably come later with both stargate and templar tech so for toss it might be difficult still requiring back line cannons still.

zerg would still be doing the same thing with defensive banelings.

Now keep in mind this is purely theorycraft and is in no way a zerg up thread. I do however feel like zerg is quickly losing any chance of harassment in this game. Muta harass seems less and less used or worth the investment, ling run bys are becoming non existent as the meta game shifts more and more macro based from all teams and they make defenses accordingly, and of course the nydus is still relatively pointless. We all know Brood infestor is losing its effectiveness at some point soon whether it be hots or sooner.
Reply Quote
Posts: 4,510
sure just make sure they have 1.1 move speed.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,485
11/17/2012 02:50 PMPosted by Memadbyte
sure just make sure they have 1.1 move speed.


lol nice. but if things that kill them dont even have to move to do it idk if thats necesary
Reply Quote
Posts: 10,665
No, late game ling runbys are really strong as they are already, to have lings just jump in my main and kill all my production (then easily run out depending on the map) is just too strong. its already possibly the most mobile unit in the game
Edited by Zerglor on 11/17/2012 5:03 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,135
I think if you make it like blink but instead of costing energy have it cost life. Kinda like the marine stim it would make zerglings able to jump up cliffs. I do feel like terran is capable of handling this type of aggression but i'm not too sure about protoss. So I think hive tech would be understandable seeing protoss doesn't have any easy AoE damage tell colossi.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,485
11/17/2012 05:02 PMPosted by Zerglor
No, late game ling runbys are really strong as they are already, to have lings just jump in my main and kill all my production (then easily run out depending on the map) is just too strong. its already possibly the most mobile unit in the game


Its not that much different from a drop really. I think it would just force ppl to keep something behind to defend a lil more. Think about it a single widow mine can take out a large group of harass units in one shot. toss raises the big red flag in my opinion because they dont have that same aoe power terran does till later in the game.

Zerg rarely goes to late game so idk lol. def blings would very possibly be enough.

Zerg need some way of harassing and aggression. They are so defensive every game i watch.
Reply Quote
Posts: 10,665
No, late game ling runbys are really strong as they are already, to have lings just jump in my main and kill all my production (then easily run out depending on the map) is just too strong. its already possibly the most mobile unit in the game


Its not that much different from a drop really. I think it would just force ppl to keep something behind to defend a lil more. Think about it a single widow mine can take out a large group of harass units in one shot. toss raises the big red flag in my opinion because they dont have that same aoe power terran does till later in the game.

Zerg rarely goes to late game so idk lol. def blings would very possibly be enough.

Zerg need some way of harassing and aggression. They are so defensive every game i watch.

ling runbys are deadly all game long, and tbh once you get to that point in the late game there wont be a ton of mines out on the field not enough to stop it atleast. and its very different from a drop because I can build turrets to stop drops, but nothing will stop the lings if they just walk around my army

also nydus worms are good, zergs use em against me alot
Edited by Zerglor on 11/17/2012 5:45 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,083
11/17/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Nightwolf
How would it affect the game? At first common sense says holy overpowered batman cliff jumping lings would own all.But think about it if the upgrade came at lair or hive tech. The terrans with both widow mines,Pfs, and battle hellions can crush packs of lings with little to no probelms with just aoe dmg they do. a sensor tower and a few well placed units that arent particularly expensive would make this pretty defendable. Even just a bunker behind the mineral line might suffice.

It sucks if a group of mineral dumps force terrans to turtle with gas heavy and useless investments like pfs and sensor towers... delaying his/her death while zerg takes the whole map. Plus lair and hive is accessed quickly.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,083
11/17/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Nightwolf
Toss with timewarp/storm are gonna be crushing these low tech armies all day although that would still probably come later with both stargate and templar tech so for toss it might be difficult still requiring back line cannons still.

But it costs more investment off protoss. Plus mineral dump raptors can even take out production and get sacked with no loss. Cannons won't work. It will promote 2 bases while zerg takes the map with little worry (they have a counter attack ready pronto) and get gglords and opestors.

11/17/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Nightwolf
zerg would still be doing the same thing with defensive banelings.

Or raptor back

11/17/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Nightwolf
Now keep in mind this is purely theorycraft and is in no way a zerg up thread. I do however feel like zerg is quickly losing any chance of harassment in this game. Muta harass seems less and less used or worth the investment, ling run bys are becoming non existent as the meta game shifts more and more macro based from all teams and they make defenses accordingly, and of course the nydus is still relatively pointless. We all know Brood infestor is losing its effectiveness at some point soon whether it be hots or sooner.

Kinda bad theory crafting no offense. You talk as if zerg is the weakest. In a balanced perspective of the current game, this buff will give zerg a 100% win rate more or less. Have you ever seen the power of zerg harassment? Nor have you seen terrans or protoss struggle and destroy their keyboards just to beat a simple 1-a f army?

Sorry for being biased but this is a very big game break. Just wanted to say.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,485
i never said zerg was weak. im just curious what it would be like with the new hots changes is all. i have seen zerg power of harass go down lower and lower. Walls and forcefields stop it ont he ground and aoe stops it in the air to the point where the game is solely get to brood infestor.

honestly id rather see zerg get more options period because i dotn wanna get hots just to still do brood infestor every game
Reply Quote
Posts: 10,665
i never said zerg was weak. im just curious what it would be like with the new hots changes is all. i have seen zerg power of harass go down lower and lower. Walls and forcefields stop it ont he ground and aoe stops it in the air to the point where the game is solely get to brood infestor.

honestly id rather see zerg get more options period because i dotn wanna get hots just to still do brood infestor every game

its not just zerg thats harassment is going down, its all the races

and the cause of this I believe is mothership core and widow mine put together, and spore crawler without evo
Edited by Zerglor on 11/17/2012 7:52 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,083
11/17/2012 07:22 PMPosted by Nightwolf
i never said zerg was weak. im just curious what it would be like with the new hots changes is all. i have seen zerg power of harass go down lower and lower. Walls and forcefields stop it ont he ground and aoe stops it in the air to the point where the game is solely get to brood infestor.

Zerg harassment is still there. Just don't have too many expectations. Every time you try to run in does not grantee a free mineral patch worth or workers. Same with drops. Mutas can't just wipe out everything. Mutas are there to harass and contain. The only reason why people go for broodlord infestor is because why not. It is ridiculously strong rather then to go do the "terran's method" of drops and constant aggression. Zerg still has harass. Just the same as protoss or terran. It may seem like terrans have more harass but that is because of their 1-1-1 style and because they go for aggressive builds. If a terran goes mech, the harass is much more tame.

11/17/2012 07:22 PMPosted by Nightwolf
honestly id rather see zerg get more options period because i dotn wanna get hots just to still do brood infestor every game

The only way to do that is to nerf the infestor. Zerg cannot have aggressive paths AND an ultimate doom army to back them up.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7004698064?page=1

Here is my idea of a good aggressive change to zerg. ^^^
Better than the op raptors.
Reply Quote
Posts: 497
this kind of unit would probably break the game lol... even if the upgrade was researched in ultra den. also endless qq as far as the eye can see
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,485
11/17/2012 08:23 PMPosted by MappyTinfoil
The only way to do that is to nerf the infestor. Zerg cannot have aggressive paths AND an ultimate doom army to back them up.


i totally agree infestor needs to be toned down but in reaction to that zergs other units need buffs. before this infestor craze zerg was not even remotely as successful as terran or protoss
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,083
11/17/2012 09:11 PMPosted by Nightwolf
i totally agree infestor needs to be toned down but in reaction to that zergs other units need buffs. before this infestor craze zerg was not even remotely as successful as terran or protoss

Actually zerg was doing fine.

ZvT was ling bling muta
ZvP was mass mutas (hence the original role for tempests)

The only overpowered race was terran...
Thor rushes: gave energy to thors for feedback.
1-1-1: Gave immortals 6 range. Your welcome Stephano.
Reaper Rushes: Made reapers useless.
Hellions: 5 range queens
Mass snipe: Nerf ghosts
Mass emp: Nerf ghosts
3 rax: stim adjusting

After all those patches terran is a now a wreck...
Broodlord infestor is near impossible to kill: balanced
Mech gets killed by lair tech: balanced
Ravens cost the most energy, gas, and has the worst spells: balanced
Bio-mech requires 300 apm yet zerg's can still stop it with average same level play: balanced
Hellion banshee gets killed by an easy roach rush if you mess up one thing in your build: balanced
Metropalis LE, the only map big enough to get ravens, got removed: balance
Condemned ridge, full of expos and flat ground for 1-a deathballs and direct engagements: balance
Zerg is slightly dominating and zvz finals are occurring: Waits for a meta game shift...

Overall the game is quite balanced (despite what I said above) but I think zerg is getting the better end of all of this.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,485
11/18/2012 12:49 AMPosted by MappyTinfoil
Actually zerg was doing fine.


Actually zerg was doing terrible. Zerg only placed first in 1 mlg in all of 2011. Terrans took it 4 times. 2012 again zerg only has won 1 mlg in the fall. In most of them only 2 zergs even made it to top 10.

Gsl Zerg has the fewest medals by far with 92 for zerg, 102 for protoss, and 126 for terrans in 2010-2012 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments_Medalists/Race

Those results show one team specifically dominating the sc2 scene is the Terrans.
Reply Quote
Posts: 99
11/18/2012 12:49 AMPosted by MappyTinfoil
Mech gets killed by lair tech: balanced


I have yet to beat mech.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,485
11/17/2012 08:36 PMPosted by LightningWar
this kind of unit would probably break the game lol... even if the upgrade was researched in ultra den. also endless qq as far as the eye can see


even with units like the hellbat that melt lings super fast?
Reply Quote
Posts: 4,135
Would be fun and would love to see it but it would be insanely OP considering they can jump into a Terran base and eat Tanks alive. Also Raptors have 10 extra HP so they would be tougher to kill.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]