StarCraft® II

Call to Action: November 30 Balance Testing

11/29/2012 07:06 PMPosted by supaflyz
this change is backpedaling in a major way and a sign that blizzard is scared to nerf zerg
11/29/2012 06:14 PMPosted by benthekid
You are aware that Fungal is the reason infestors are broken right? Fungal has range 9 with radius 2 so effectively 11 range. Seeker missle has 6 range...tell me that isn't bull!@#$.
You are aware siege tanks are range 13, much longer than any zerg unit and do bonus damage to infestors. tell me that isn't bull!@#$.
im only bronze, but, isnt the point of zerg to be really powerful late game? thats why zerg players have almost no defences. plus, p and t are stronger than z in early and mid game. what about t and p players adapting to the game instead of pleading for patches? you can always harrass a zerg more easily than p or t anyways, thatll prolong zerg players in getting hive tech

but its whatever, thats my 2 cents
How exactly does Zerg have a "free early-mid game"?


That free third. Nerfs to all other races.


Then don't take a fast CC.
Edited by Swarm on 11/29/2012 7:08 PM PST
haha after seeing 30 infestor games, blizzard is still scared to nerf them.

ghosts counter tier 3? NERF!

infestors counter tier everything? hm...lets look at it for a few months...keep watching...ok looks like making an egg 20 hp less will do the trick and make everything fine.
That is the problem with TvZ we have to force units, zerg sits on 3 base and makes nothing but drones because queens defend everything. Zerg gets to macro for free while Terran has to make units for fear of an all in. The queen buff takes away all the action in the early game, and mid game because of creep spread.
11/29/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Swarm
Then don't take a fast CC.


because queen buff made so that any early aggresion even without a fast cc is not viable and too risky.
Remove pathogen glands from the game.

Remove KA from the game.

Remove Moebius Reactor from the game.

Balance!
YES! +1111111111!~!!!!!!:)
This would change everything for the better.


yes please. +1
11/29/2012 07:07 PMPosted by Aeroxe
this change is backpedaling in a major way and a sign that blizzard is scared to nerf zerg


You quoted the wrong guy.

Auto turrets cost twice as much energy, doesn't move, and they don't benefit from any attack weapons to my knowledge (feel free to correct me on this). They only thing they have going for them is that they last a friggin long time.
So i'm guessing you guys made thiis egg change so that storm can be used to counter infested terrans. Awesome. This does nothing to correct the tvz ballance issues. Additionally you guys mentioned that you were going to try and correct the issues with terran being so much harder to play than the other races. Any word on this?
11/29/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Ender
So i'm guessing you guys made thiis egg change so that storm can be used to counter infested terrans. Awesome. This does nothing to correct the tvz ballance issues. Additionally you guys mentioned that you were going to try and correct the issues with terran being so much harder to play than the other races. Any word on this?


Which is why reducing the cast range would be a much better idea. Imagine if your infestors had to get without 4-5 range to cast infested terrans? They would be exposed to enemy fire, die to tanks or colossus or Immortals, and not be able to get off the spell *risk free* like they can right now.

Instead, there would be a risk to cast IT armies. The reason you can get away with 30 infestors right now is because there's NO RISK TO IT.
11/29/2012 07:05 PMPosted by DukeInstinct
besides hellion runbys still happen


Ya to awful silver Zerg players like you.


Hellion runbys happen in all leagues - especially code S.

Hell, that's what the point of MVP's hellion/banshee opener is - goad the queens out of position with banshees, run in with hellions, roast drones.

Watch the last FIVE tournaments.

Zerg didn't win a single one of them. Yet they're clearly "OP", if you ask anyone that's Diamond and below.


.....and then 80% of the players are zerg.

gg bro.


Already posted this, but zerg is the least represented overall...

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/1/all

11/29/2012 07:00 PMPosted by Emissary
And also David Kim already said on the EU HOTS forums that WinFestors are getting nerfed FOR SURE! His words not mine.


He said that they are going to try balancing changes in WoL and HotS. He never said for sure that the changes would make it into the final versions of either game...

Remove pathogen glands from the game.

Remove KA from the game.

Remove Moebius Reactor from the game.

Balance!


You do realize that, even without KA, the time from when an infestor with the pathogen glands starts building to the time it can spawn and fungal is lower than the time it takes for a protoss to start warping in a high templar until the time it can storm? The difference is front-loaded production.
11/29/2012 07:05 PMPosted by DukeInstinct
besides hellion runbys still happen


Ya to awful silver Zerg players like you.


Quite a sad person.

Good job, you saw the my record from 2010 when I played like 30 total games. Then Terran players wonder why no one likes them. When your race dominates and when it is in decline, you act like a bunch of douchebags. Besides, if you are so concerned with my record I was playing at Platinum level, but stop playing, so dropped down. I honestly don't understand idiots acting all smug because of league.
Take root off fungal. Another option is, as soon as you get put against a zerg, just leave the game. Broodlords should cost 6 supply.
11/29/2012 07:10 PMPosted by supaflyz
Auto turrets cost twice as much energy, doesn't move, and they don't benefit from any attack weapons to my knowledge (feel free to correct me on this). They only thing they have going for them is that they last a friggin long time.


They have a higher DPS, 3 times the HP, 1 longer range (2 with the upgrade), last 180 seconds (240 with upgrade) vs the 30 of infested terrans, 1 starting armor (3 with upgrade) vs 0 on ITs, and can be repaired.

Mobility and energy cost is about the only advantage ITs have.
Edited by Snow on 11/29/2012 7:18 PM PST
Battle Hellions = Biological???
Archons cannot be sniped???
Thors have energy???
Broodlords have unlimited Brood lings???
Engineering bays can't lift off???
Fungal Growth hits air and massive???
Zealots always hit fleeing targets???
Queens are not considered armored???
0 Armour vikings are armored???
None of these things make sense and guess what they're all in the game.


Agreed.
Archons being sniped makes the same amount of sense as mechanical units being sniped. If a mechanical unit can't be sniped, an archon shouldn't be snipable either. The bullets are obviously specialized for living targets and not energy beings or units with large amounts of mechanical parts.
I don't understand why you think thors shouldn't have energy from a lore perspective.
Broodlords having infinite broodlings makes the same amount of sense as marines having infinite bullets and roaches having infinite acid. I'm ok with it.

Engineering bays don't have any reason to be built with lift off in mind, since they are just as effective at any location on the map, short of building it in a location where they can be killed easily. Terrans most likely cut the feature to cut down on unnecessary costs when building an engineering bay. Makes the same amount of sense as tech labs and reactors not having a lift off function as a smaller building than barracks, factories or starports.

It would be easy enough to give a lore reason for fungals being able to hit air. What reason is there for fungals not affecting massive in lore? Seems like you would have to make up lore specificly so massive units wouldn't be affected.
Why wouldn't charge allow zealots to hit fleeing targets? Lorewise, doesn't charge allow zealots to move at a speed nearing the speed of sound?
The "armored" affix is refering to the type of armor a unit is wearing. Queens are very durable, but their carapace is not vulnerable to units with a bonus to armored. By your logic, +armor upgrades for each race would turn light units into armored units.
Vikings are vulnerable to anti armor weapondry, due to the type of materials used to make their suit, but doesn't provide outstanding durability due to the amount of the material used and the engineering that allows it to switch between fight and assault modes.
Edited by AscendedOne on 11/29/2012 7:47 PM PST
Already posted this, but zerg is the least represented overall...

http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/1/all


look at korean stats or (even wore and more applicable) NA race stats by league.
Blizzard, If Psionic Units are no longer immune, which I think was an excellent change, then please buff the counters to infestors, such as maybe a ghost and high templar buff, and perhaps directly nerf the infestor. They are still completely overpowered in the late game, as demonstrated by Scarlett vs. Ryung at IPL5, and are still relatively impossible to deal with cost efficiently.
You do realize that, even without KA, the time from when an infestor with the pathogen glands starts building to the time it can spawn and fungal is lower than the time it takes for a protoss to start warping in a high templar until the time it can storm? The difference is front-loaded production.


Symmetrical balance at it's finest. By implementing these changes, no race can QQ about having instant storms, instant EMPs, or instant Fungal Growth. This will encourage players to be careful with their casters as having too much too early means you are dead as $hit when you can't use their spells as you want.

While we are at it, we should remove Caduceus Reactor and Corvid Reactor because Zergs and Protoss will inevitably QQ about Terrans having two upgrades that increases starting energy while they have none.
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