StarCraft® II

Call to Action: November 30 Balance Testing

Posts: 4,728
11/29/2012 07:16 PMPosted by Libor
Take root off fungal. Another option is, as soon as you get put against a zerg, just leave the game.


I agree - a high percentage slow would make it a better designed ability.

11/29/2012 07:16 PMPosted by Libor
Broodlords should cost 6 supply.


Maybe if their stats were increased - they deal 8 DPS, have 225 HP, 1 starting armor. Their biggest benefits are mucking up pathing with broodlings, and their range - which is 3.5 lower than a siege tank's.
Posts: 188
HSM without upgrades is a start, but Ravens need to start off at least with 100 energy, and HSM should cost only 100 energy (therefore lets Raven at least shoot off an HSM when they are first produced).
Posts: 1,126
So much qq. Yet if Blizz implements changes asked for guess what. Still more qq.
Posts: 4,464
11/29/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Pain
Then Terran players wonder why no one likes them. When your race dominates and when it is in decline, you act like a bunch of douchebags.


Ironic coming from a person who plays the same race that EGIdra plays.

11/29/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Pain
Besides, if you are so concerned with my record I was playing at Platinum level, but stop playing, so dropped down. I honestly don't understand idiots acting all smug because of league.


Not really. I mean I think it's pretty sad that you main as Zerg and can't get better than silver but I don't really care all that much about your rank. I'm just saying that awful Zerg players (the ones crying on the forum like you) are the same ones that let hellion runbys work in the first place. Good Zergs just put buildings to wall off and a couple spine crawlers and its GG for the hellions. Its like if Protoss or Terran didn't wall off from zerglings and cried zergling runbys were OP and then Blizzard gave marines and stalkers +2 range.
Posts: 1,369
Auto turrets cost twice as much energy, doesn't move, and they don't benefit from any attack weapons to my knowledge (feel free to correct me on this). They only thing they have going for them is that they last a friggin long time.


They have a higher DPS, 3 times the HP, 1 longer range (2 with the upgrade), last 180 seconds (240 with upgrade) vs the 30 of infested terrans, 1 starting armor (3 with upgrade) vs 0 on ITs, and can be repaired.

Mobility and energy cost is about the only advantage ITs have.


Yet no one uses them because PDD and Seeker Missiles are arguably better spells and IT scales with upgrades while auto turrets do not. At 3/3, an auto turret does a measly 5 at .8 speed to a ling and we are not talking about a lot of turrets mind you. Compare that to an IT which does 11 damage at .86 speed with 3 armor and can be spammed in upwards of 30+ and kill an entire army. So IT>Auto turrets.

What game was it when the Zerg was dead, the Protoss had a giant army and lost to mass IT with a handful of corrupters simply because of the IT's insane DPS? Do auto turrets do that?
Edited by supaflyz on 11/29/2012 7:27 PM PST
Posts: 4,728
11/29/2012 07:21 PMPosted by ThorDaWin
HSM without upgrades is a start, but Ravens need to start off at least with 100 energy, and HSM should cost only 100 energy (therefore lets Raven at least shoot off an HSM when they are first produced).


It would be hard to balance a spell of that damage output, and 100 starting energy is kind of a lot - they initially tried lowering the cost of HSM to 100 in HotS while leaving the starting energy at 50 (+25 with upgrade), and even that was too much and had to be reverted.

I'd rather see a spell with utility and less damage output (easier to balance) at a more reasonable cost and a higher attainability, such as a lockdown ability at 75 energy with a lower duration than lockdown in BW.
Posts: 620
11/29/2012 07:26 PMPosted by GUNSLINGA
Uninstalled SC2 and HotS beta :) Bye blizzard. Bye SC2. It was fun last year when ling bane muta v marine tank medivac existed! When MMA/DRG finals were filled with drops all over the place and crazy multitasking! I hope you guys realize how much you've !@#$ed up/still are %^-*ing up! So much potential. Peace.


Stop trying to get attention. You already posted in this thread you were leaving SC2. No need to be a drama queen.
Posts: 4,728
11/29/2012 07:25 PMPosted by DukeInstinct
Ironic coming from a person who plays the same race that EGIdra plays.


Avilio makes IdrA look like a choir boy.

11/29/2012 07:25 PMPosted by DukeInstinct
I mean I think it's pretty sad that you main as Zerg and can't get better than silver


trolololol

11/29/2012 07:25 PMPosted by supaflyz
Yet no one uses them because PDD and Seeker Missiles are arguably better spells and IT scales with upgrades while auto turrets do not.


I've seen auto turret used far more than HSM.

At 3/3, an auto turret does a measly 5 at .8 damage to a ling and we are not talking about a lot of turrets mind you. Compare that to an IT which does 11 damage at .86 speed with 3 armor and can be spammed in upwards of 30+ and kill an entire army.


I like how you compare auto turret against a unit at 3/3 and IT at full upgrades against an unarmored unit. And then ignore all of the other stats in which the auto turret does better - armor, HP, duration, range, etc.
Edited by Snow on 11/29/2012 7:32 PM PST
Posts: 3
11/29/2012 06:36 PMPosted by QueensNYC
tacked larva? Mass tier 3 instantly? Mass corruptors morphed? There is no justification for such a powerful unit - A TIER 3 UNIT - to be only 4 supply.


inb4 enraged toss disguised as zerg gets his knickers in a knot.
Blizzard you are doing the right thing, the nerf to fungal only being able to affect half of the toss army was rediculous. although i think something simple such as making infestors 3 or 4 supply would definetely benefit
Posts: 14
Sensationalism ahoy!

It's a TEST MAP, people.
Posts: 1,369
You don't get what I mean. We can agree that IT and auto turrets have almost the exact same dps right?

Auto turrets do not benefit from any attack upgrades. IT benefit from attack upgrades. Thus, an auto turret will do 5 points of damage while an IT does 8 at maxed armor upgrades.

Auto turrets can't be spammed because Ravens are extremely expensive compared to IT and they show up in the late game where Zergs will have a crap ton of spines in their bases negating autoturrets. Plus, if you want to waste that energy instead of keeping it for SM, good luck when the BL/corrupter force shows up in the front door.

Auto turrets suck.
Edited by supaflyz on 11/29/2012 7:36 PM PST
Posts: 4,464
They have a higher DPS, 3 times the HP, 1 longer range (2 with the upgrade), last 180 seconds (240 with upgrade) vs the 30 of infested terrans, 1 starting armor (3 with upgrade) vs 0 on ITs, and can be repaired.

Mobility and energy cost is about the only advantage ITs have.


Good job on completely ignoring the placement restrictions for auto-turrets which is the main reason they aren't used much. You can just run away from turrets, you can't run away from infested terrans because the same caster that throws them out has an ability that completely prevents any micro. lol
Posts: 115
The HSM change doesn't do a whole lot, tbh. The issues that the raven still has are prevalent even when the upgrade is removed. Low starting energy compared with high energy cost and an upgrade that makes the low starting energy mediocre in comparison to high energy cost spells. Not only that, but the cost of Ravens themselves with this flaw make them an undesirable option in the early game, which the removal of the upgrade indicates. 200 gas in the early to mid game isn't exactly a negligible amount, especially when it could be going towards any number of other things.
Posts: 4,960
some math here to put everything in perspective:
1 IT has 50 health, it has 9.3 DPS and lasts 30 seconds and it costs 25 energy

with 3/3 upgrades, It's DPS becomes 12.9

20 Supply, 10 Infestors: Have a maximum of 2000 energy, which is 80 Infested Terran which in total have 4000 health and deal a total of 984 DPS

40 Supply, 20 Infestors: Have a maximum of 4000 energy, which is 160 Infested Terran which in total have 8000 health and deal a total of 1968 DPS

60 Supply, the infamous Leenock 30 Infestors: Have a maximum of 6000 energy, which is 240 infested terran which in total have 12000 health and deal an astounding 2,952 DPS

Obviously these numbers are "perfect" (and it's hard to simultaneously generate 240 infested terran and focus fire a single target) but this gives you an idea of the RAW dps of infested terran. Because they are about the equivalent to a stimmed marine and come 8 per infestor (2 supply instead of the 8 supply of marines) this allows you to pool energy into massive, free armies beyond the supply cap

Given the 30 energy nerf that would lower the numbers to 6 per infestor, we would see numbers of,

20 Supply, 10 Infestors: Have a maximum of 2000, energy which is 60 infested terran which in total have 3000 health and deal 738 DPS

40 Supply, 20 Infestors: Have a maximum of 4000 energy, which is 120 Infested terran which in total have 6000 health and deal 1476 DPS

60 Supply, 30 Infestors: Have a maximum of 6000 energy, which is 180 Infested terran which in total have 9000 health and deal 2214 DPS

Given the 50 energy nerf that would lower numbers to 4 per infestor, we would see numbers of,

20 Supply, 10 Infestors: Have a maximum of 2000 energy which is 40 infested terran, which in total have 2000 health and deal a total of 492 DPS

40 Supply, 20 Infestors: have a maximum of 4000 energy which is 80 infested terran, which in total have 4000 life and deal a total of 984 DPS

60 Supply, 30 infestors: have a maximum of 6000 energy, which is 120 infested terran which in total have 6000 life and deal a total of 1476 DPS

as you can see, even in the severely nerfed "50 energy per IT) version, infestors are still able to use their energy to create high DPS, supply efficient armies

with a change to 30 energy or 50 energy per IT, i am confident we would see more use of IT in base defense/air defense and less "dump all your energy into IT while you engage his tank line" or fungal in place + IT the protoss ball

data posted on TL
why are they nerfing egg HP again?
Posts: 1,369
11/29/2012 06:01 PMPosted by Kaivax
When players have a dozen or more Infestors, they aren’t using 20 Fungals at once. Rather, they’re relying on Infested Terrans. The question we hope to answer is: Will the Zerg’s opponents kill some of the eggs before Infested Terrans spawn?


Basically, kill the IT before they kill you.

While fending off the broodlings no less.
Edited by supaflyz on 11/29/2012 7:39 PM PST
Posts: 6,382
The beautiful games between T and Z that lasted minutes and minutes between bane-ling-muta vs marine-tank are all gone.


This wasn't due to the queen range buff, but a myriad of other factors. You would have seen mutas phased out of the metagame regardless of whether or not the range was increased to 5.
Posts: 376
11/29/2012 07:26 PMPosted by GUNSLINGA
Uninstalled SC2 and HotS beta :) Bye blizzard. Bye SC2. It was fun last year when ling bane muta v marine tank medivac existed! When MMA/DRG finals were filled with drops all over the place and crazy multitasking! I hope you guys realize how much you've !@#$ed up/still are %^-*ing up! So much potential. Peace.


lol please quit. i hate dumb people that cant stick to a game cause it isn't herp derp easy. people like you should just stick to fps games or league of legends
Edited by TwoLeeteR on 11/29/2012 7:40 PM PST
Posts: 8,106
11/29/2012 07:37 PMPosted by SenzaErrori
why are they nerfing egg HP again?


Because eggs are supposed to be fragile!!!! it fits in with sc2 lore!
Posts: 1,369
11/29/2012 07:42 PMPosted by MetalGear
Because eggs are supposed to be fragile!!!! it fits in with sc2 lore!


Then won't that make eggs near the hatcheries fragile too?
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