Call to Action: November 30 Balance Testing

Posts: 4,735
11/29/2012 06:01 PMPosted by Kaivax
Egg health reduced to 80 (was 100).


A token change with zero meaning. Blizzard is playing public relations here as opposed to addressing real issues.
Posts: 2,813
11/29/2012 07:17 PMPosted by Snow
Auto turrets cost twice as much energy, doesn't move, and they don't benefit from any attack weapons to my knowledge (feel free to correct me on this). They only thing they have going for them is that they last a friggin long time.


They have a higher DPS, 3 times the HP, 1 longer range (2 with the upgrade), last 180 seconds (240 with upgrade) vs the 30 of infested terrans, 1 starting armor (3 with upgrade) vs 0 on ITs, and can be repaired.

Mobility and energy cost is about the only advantage ITs have.


+1 infested terran do more dps. At 25 energy cost compared to 50 infested terran have over double the damage as auto-turrets do. +3 infested terran do 12.9 dps, 2 infested terran do 25.8 dps for the same energy cost as 10 dps auto-turrets.
infested terran can also get +3 armor.

Infested terran have a 9 placement range, compared to 3 for the auto-turret
Infested terran can be deployed by spam clicking the same exact spot
Each auto-turret needs a 2x2 complete free of any units place to land

Infested terran are viable with all zerg compositions against all races, auto-turrets are only viable in pure raven compositions against zerg.

So auto-turrets last longer? Aside from buildings what is going to stay around for the full duration? What race would let its buildings die to auto-turrets (hint its only zerg without burrow roach micro or ultras or nearby broodlords)?
Posts: 146
Psionic units being immune was the perfect change! Why revert it?!! Blizzard, stop making weak decisions! I will still test out this map, and deliver my feedback.
Edited by Ironmammoth on 11/29/2012 7:47 PM PST
Posts: 981
So basically nothing changes for Terran. Thanks blizzard.
Posts: 4,728
11/29/2012 07:50 PMPosted by LgNavilo
So basically nothing changes for Terran. Thanks blizzard.


Maybe you should make a video calling for all terrans to stop playing?

Because that worked out so well last time.
Posts: 123
Ugh, it is the root. The root is the problem and a slow would only be slightly better - it would not actually fix anything.

Remove the root and make affected units take double damage (or some other adequate negative status effect)

Now, instead of removing micro (skill and excitement) from the game, Fungal Growth forces it. Fungaled units have to be microed to the back or they will evaporate. This would promote good unit control and allow players to actually play.

Area-of-effect roots and slows have no purpose but to lower the skill level of your opponent. This sucks excitement out of the game. Less skill and less excitement are literally the two worst things that can happen to any sort of competition. Splitting, stutter stepping, Blink, MKP's Marine control, Parting's Stalker micro, MMA vs DRG: these are the types of things that make StarCraft exciting and that make it a spectator esport. These are also the types of things that the root on Fungal Growth (and Brood Lords) have diminished.

This is just...uuuuuuuuuugh. This is so terrible. How do they watch games with 20-30 Infestors and blanket Fungal Growth and not see a problem? How do they watch micro and control and skill and excitement all get shutdown by one single aspect of one single ability and not see a problem?

I feel like I am taking crazy pills or something.
Posts: 4,464
It's so funny how the usefulness of auto turrets vs infested terrans is even an argument. Only with Snow. lol

Next he'll be arguing that siege tanks are somehow more mobile than zerglings.
Posts: 4,728
11/29/2012 07:53 PMPosted by DukeInstinct
It's so funny how the usefulness of auto turrets vs infested terrans is even an argument. Only with Snow. lol


Where did I say that auto turrets are more useful? I was pointing out that there are stats where auto turrets have an edge over ITs in response to someone stating that their only advantage was duration.

Correcting a false statement =/= arguing the usefulness of a unit.
Edited by Snow on 11/29/2012 7:56 PM PST
Posts: 24
I dont understand. Why would you want to nerf fungal.. then withdraw that entirely and nerf something else? Wasn't Fungal the initial problem?
Posts: 1,372
I like how you compare auto turret against a unit at 3/3 and IT at full upgrades against an unarmored unit. And then ignore all of the other stats in which the auto turret does better - armor, HP, duration, range, etc.


Maximum upgrades
IT::::Auto turret

11 damage at .8604 attack speed :::: 8 attack at .8 attack speed
3 armor:::: 3 armor
Can move albeit very slowly:::: stuck to the ground
50 health::::150 health
5 range::::7 range
30 seconds::::240 seconds
25 energy::::50 energy

I could argue, but dwarfspider sums it up nicely why IT>auto turrets. I will add that the energy is best saved for SM rather than using auto turrets if you are investing in Ravens as it is simply the better and potential game changing spell for terrans.

Also, duration is hardly an advantage when you can't spam them en masse like IT. Very easy to clean them up with minimal losses. Range advantage is quite meh.
Edited by supaflyz on 11/29/2012 7:58 PM PST
Posts: 146
BLIZZARD FIX THE DAMN INFESTOR AND THE ZERG MATCHUPS!!! I WAS CALM BUT NOW I AM !@#$ING PISSED OFF WITH YOUR IGNORANCE
Posts: 742
Wow i like this change.

Not to extreme like it has been sometimes which is nice. We don't need another snipe nerf.

Seaker missile change is really smart. One huge reason (and one that isnt noticible to people even though its huge) it that it takes way to long of a time to get a benefit for investing into Ravens and this helps with that.

Infester change: a few reasons i like it. Does not effect normal play but makes mass infesters less strong and it helps against mech.
Posts: 4,728
11/29/2012 07:55 PMPosted by MoreVocals
I dont understand. Why would you want to nerf fungal.. then withdraw that entirely and nerf something else? Wasn't Fungal the initial problem?


In the other thread, a ton of terrans/protosses were saying this wouldn't solve anything, that ITs were the biggest problem, etc.

Now they're nerfing ITs and they're saying "BUT WHAT ABOUT FUNGAL THIS DOES NOTHING!"

11/29/2012 07:56 PMPosted by supaflyz
I like how you compare auto turret against a unit at 3/3 and IT at full upgrades against an unarmored unit. And then ignore all of the other stats in which the auto turret does better - armor, HP, duration, range, etc.


Maximum upgrades
IT::::Auto turret

11 damage at .8604 attack speed :::: 8 attack at .8 attack speed
3 armor:::: 3 armor
Can move albeit very slowly:::: stuck to the ground
50 health::::150 health
5 range::::7 range
30 seconds::::240 seconds
25 energy::::50 energy

I could argue, but dwarfspider sums it up nicely why IT>auto turrets. I will add that the energy is best saved for SM rather than using auto turrets if you are investing in Ravens as it is simply the better and potential game changing spell for terrans.


This is exactly what I was getting at. They both have their ups and downs.

I'd add DPS in there as well.
Edited by Snow on 11/29/2012 7:58 PM PST
Posts: 2,813
11/29/2012 07:55 PMPosted by Snow
It's so funny how the usefulness of auto turrets vs infested terrans is even an argument. Only with Snow. lol


Where did I say that auto turrets are more useful? I was pointing out that there are stats where auto turrets have an edge over ITs in response to someone stating that their only advantage was duration.

Correcting a false statement =/= arguing the usefulness of a unit.


Huh? But the duration is the only advantage.

2 infested terran have 200, now 160 hp as eggs. 100 as units. That's comparable or flat out more than auto-turrets.

I've already listed everything else.
Posts: 6,931
11/29/2012 06:33 PMPosted by Swarm
Except, Colossus are much easier to get than Brood Lords and can be chrono-boosted.
You might have a point if Protoss could build 7 Colossi at once.

(They can, but the cost for that is wayyyyyyyyyyy higher than any similar production mechanic for the Zerg.)
Not saying either is better, just that you said a dumb thing.
Posts: 1,372
The egg change makes it easier to mop the eggs. It really should help decrease the number of IT that can kill your units especially when a mech player is bombarded with them.
Posts: 4,728
Huh? But the duration is the only advantage.

2 infested terran have 200, now 160 hp as eggs. 100 as units. That's comparable or flat out more than auto-turrets.

I've already listed everything else.


100 HP vs 150 for AT

5 range vs 6 (+1)

1 starting armor vs 0 starting armor (both 3 at max upgrades).
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