StarCraft® II

Carrier Interceptor and Vortex, fungal, etc

Posts: 902
Hi guys. I was just watching my friend's stream and I saw that he was going a carrier/mothership build in a PvZ. He engages the zerg army and the interceptors are sent flying over the zerg army and attacking (automatically). He vortexes the army and all the interceptors are all sucked in.

Carriers are left useless with no interceptors when a vortex is thrown down.

So my suggestion is: Interceptors are not affected by vortex, or maybe even any spell at all.

Why? Carrier's interceptors are just like zerglings, except they're ranged (range of 2) and flying. We see zerglings get stormed and fungaled to death. The interceptor is the same, except
it is a TIER 3 UNIT'S ONLY WEAPON. Storm and fungal render these units absolutely useless and Protoss players usually get a mothership with carriers and vortex the enemy army with interceptors over them, making carriers and their interceptors again useless. At least other tier 3 units can shoot while being affected by these spells (except vortex) but the carrier's interceptors have 80 HP and a range of 2.

Maybe too imba? Idk.
Edited by PkBLUE on 11/25/2012 8:31 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 4,017
+1 I can't tell you how annoying this is.
Reply Quote
Posts: 687
+1 Good thought out response.
Reply Quote
Posts: 749
This is what we've been crying about for all of eternity now, and who can blame us? It's 100% valid. Lair tech caster COMPLETELY countering our most expensive and supply-heavy unit? It's absolute bull!@#$.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,736
What does it being tier 3 have anything to do with anything? I'd pay 500/500 for the ability to make zerglings fly.
Reply Quote
Posts: 902
11/26/2012 12:17 AMPosted by Rathelm
What does it being tier 3 have anything to do with anything? I'd pay 500/500 for the ability to make zerglings fly.


Interceptors, thus Carriers, are too weak. Carriers may have 8 range, but Interceptors actually have 2. When they are fungaled/stormed/vortexed they're dead or unable to attack. Carriers are then vulnerable, useless, etcetc

Carriers are tier 3 and they cost 350/250 + 8 "slightly more buff flying lings" which cost 200 minerals.

In reality a carrier costs 550/250 but if you exclude the 4 starting interceptors they cost 450/250. Still extremely expensive and yet a few storms/fungals or a good vortex render them useless.

P.S. At least zerglings are FAST, the interceptors have to be carried around a slow carrier. Flying zerglings would be better than carriers. They don't die if their producer dies well.
Edited by PkBLUE on 11/26/2012 12:33 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 779
I disagree. Infesters aside, interceptors are not the only component when engaging fleet warfare. Archons and zealots matters more.
Reply Quote
Posts: 41
I disagree with this. I honestly feel like Protoss players need to realize something:

Spread.

Your.

Carriers.

Zerg players whined and moaned and griped and groaned about Vortex versus Infestors, Broodlords, and Corruptors---And the Protoss answer was: "Stop QQ-ing. Spread your units!"

Here's a weird idea: If you spread out your Carriers in a cute little line like Zerg has to do in the end-game engagement....All of your Interceptors don't get hit in one Fungal! I know it's crazy to think about, but it spreads your interceptors and the Zerg has to use more Fungals and has to walk his Infestors into Interceptors.

( Please ignore my sarcasm, but I think it's pretty hypocritical of Protoss players to demand Zerg spread versus Vortex but aren't asked to do the same for their units? I have yet to see a single High-Level Protoss player even try to spread his Carriers. Hyun in the GSL was the last game I saw a Protoss go Carrier and he clumped them all up. Not Hyun, but his opponent. Every Interceptor came out at the same point and met in the middle to get fungal-ed. )
Edited by SadCritters on 11/26/2012 12:05 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 13,818
Spread.

Your.

Carriers.
Makes

No

Difference.

I think YOU don't realize that. Spreading Carriers does not affect how Fungal nullifies Carriers altogether because the interceptors STILL CONVERGE onto targets and clump up naturally and there is no way for Protoss to control that. Whether Carriers are stacked or split makes not difference to how BROKEN fungal is against Interceptors.
Reply Quote
Posts: 41


I think YOU don't realize that. Spreading Carriers does not affect how Fungal nullifies Carriers altogether because the interceptors STILL CONVERGE onto targets and clump up naturally and there is no way for Protoss to control that. Whether Carriers are stacked or split makes not difference to how BROKEN fungal is against Interceptors.


Please open the unit tester and tell me otherwise, as I've tried it myself. It DOES make a difference. 'Just like if a Zerg were to NOT spread units.

Interceptors coming from a line, a volley of Interceptors, do not converge in a single area. They target multiple things at once.

8)

Test it and come back.

When I am Protoss and make that switch, that is how I take out Zerg players if they let me make that switch. Granted I only play Protoss at Low Master's. My Zerg is better. 'But it is what it is.
Edited by SadCritters on 11/26/2012 2:50 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 902
I hope you do realize fungal is spammable. Fungal isn't a one shot spell. Have you seen a pack of zerglings ever survive vs infestors? Try spreading them, zerg will spam fungal all over anyways.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,096
11/26/2012 02:36 PMPosted by SadCritters
Interceptors coming from a line, a volley of Interceptors, do not converge in a single area. They target multiple things at once.


I'd really prefer to target fire broods or infestors and not have half my interceptors shooting broodlings.

Even if they do shoot important targets each carrier shooting a different brood/infestor/corruptor has to be the most ineffecient way to engage an army ever.
Reply Quote
Posts: 902
11/26/2012 11:42 AMPosted by AgCl
I disagree. Infesters aside, interceptors are not the only component when engaging fleet warfare. Archons and zealots matters more.


This post is really strictly about buffing carriers to become a viable T-3 unit. Archons and zealots don't factor into this.
Reply Quote
Posts: 13,818
Please open the unit tester and tell me otherwise, as I've tried it myself. It DOES make a difference. 'Just like if a Zerg were to NOT spread units.
Creator vs Curious. 15 Carriers, spread out moderately vs 43 Infestors.

It does not make a difference.

Also, using the Unit Test map or your own experience as a basis for this argument is weak. I just quoited a Pro game between Curious and Creator where Creator went for Carrier tech after staying toe to toe with Zerg in economy and MASS prism dropping the HELL out of Curious. The Zerg was on almost 0 mining bases while Creator was on a 5 base economy. And the ONLY reason Creator lost was because the 15 Carriers' Interceptors got fungaled. Like 90% of them... Creator had spread out his Carriers alright; he placed them in a way that would maximize surface area, as you propositioned.

Newsflash:

It did NOT matter.

Curious won that game with no economy and no army aside from 5 Broodlords, 8 Corruptors and 43 Infestors + 15-18 or so spines and spores.

Call me crazy, but whenever a player is AHEAD, he is not supposed to lose to ONE spell... All Curious did was put down 2-3 Fungals then launched 50 ITs to finish off the Interceptors forcing Creator to retreat. Hell, even 10 HTs with full energy supporting the Carriers would be insufficient...

Creator had about 5 Archons and 4-5 HTs with his 15 Carriers, and he had a few Void Rays to support. None of that mattered...

Infestors SHOULD NOT counter mass Carriers. Period.

It is absolute BS that they do.

Also, NO OTHER caster can be massed in those numbers and be sustainable. It makes NO sense.
Reply Quote
Posts: 41
moderately


I believe Zergs say the same thing when all of a player's corruptors vanish into a vortex.

Call me crazy, but whenever a player is AHEAD, he is not supposed to lose to ONE spell... All Curious did was put down 2-3 Fungals then launched 50 ITs to finish off the Interceptors forcing Creator to retreat. Hell, even 10 HTs with full energy supporting the Carriers would be insufficient....


So by that logic, why does Roach, Hydra, Corruptor lose when the Zerg is clearly ahead of the Protoss whenever they do a two-base colossus push?

Could it be that some armies just---Dare I say---Beat other armies?

/Cue shocking revelation music. ( It's not shocking if you've ever played Broodwar....It actually was absurdly common. )

Also, NO OTHER caster can be massed in those numbers and be sustainable. It makes NO sense.


Except High Templars versus Terran. MC did it twice in the GSL versus his Terran opponent after putting himself insanely far behind by handing every Blink Stalker he owned, save for three, to his opponent. Oh...Did I mention that happened this season?

But I mean---I can cherry-pick games too, I guess. 8)
Edited by SadCritters on 11/26/2012 4:16 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,501
So by that logic, why does Roach, Hydra, Corruptor lose when the Zerg is clearly ahead of the Protoss whenever they do a two-base colossus push?

Could it be that some armies just---Dare I say---Beat other armies?

Cool. What do you build to beat infestors, then?
Reply Quote
Posts: 41
11/26/2012 04:44 PMPosted by BlackAdder
Cool. What do you build to beat infestors, then?


Immortal Sentry "All-In"?

/common sense.

Zerg players were expected to not let their opponent get to the two-base deathball while doing Roach, Hydra, Corruptor otherwise they lost immediately. ( You can almost never balance that composition correctly to beat the Protoss deathball that was coming out of two bases, while they took a third. This actually led to the rise of Mutalisks for a bit in that match-up. The Zergs would try to just base-race the Protoss player and it'd be a weird scenario. ) So why shouldn't protoss players just be expected to kill Zerg players going for fast infestors from two or three bases? =/

I don't understand why players see this as such a negative thing. Punish the Zerg player for going Infestors. It makese sense. 'Just like Zerg punished Protoss for going for the two base deathball.

'Or does common sense have no place here?
Edited by SadCritters on 11/26/2012 4:53 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,501
11/26/2012 04:51 PMPosted by SadCritters
I don't understand why players see this as such a negative thing. Punish the Zerg player for going Infestors. It makese sense. 'Just like Zerg punished Protoss for going for the two base deathball.

Blizzard and most of the community weren't happy about the Roach/hydra/corruptor situation versus the 2 base Collossi ball and they're not happy about the "Protoss has to 2-3 base all-in before Brood lords" situation now. Even if it's balanced, it limits strategic play and isn't fun to watch. And "time bomb" scenerios tend not to be balanced at all skill levels. I think that's common sense.
Reply Quote
Posts: 687
I disagree with this. I honestly feel like Protoss players need to realize something:

Spread.

Your.

Carriers.



I will take some more move speed. It would make this actually performable. (also you realize that interceptors bunch-up naturally making spreading of carriers WORTHLESS)
Edited by Hippo on 11/26/2012 6:59 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 41

Blizzard and most of the community weren't happy about the Roach/hydra/corruptor situation versus the 2 base Collossi ball and they're not happy about the "Protoss has to 2-3 base all-in before Brood lords" situation now.


And yet they managed to do nothing about it back then and things worked themselves out?

It's a metagame for a reason.

PvZ has always been this way.

Zergs were always up in bases when the game first came out, so Protoss all-inned a lot. Then they realized they can take bases too, so Zergs all inned a lot. Then Protoss realized two base pushes were really, really good----So they did those for about an eon. Then Zerg realized they can turtle versus those pushes and win via their late game. Now Protoss realizes that all-ins are the answer to three-base fast Lair Zerg.

If they didn't listen before, why should they throw the balance even further down the toilet? It worked itself out last time without help from them. ( The only major things being changed have been Neural Parasite, which is being changed even further so Protoss no longer has to fear things being taken because micro=hard. . . .Even I think it's stupid that I will no longer have to babysit my Mothership and can just throw it around however I want without fear of anything happening to it. The second change being Immortals gaining +1 Range. That was an adverse effect. The buff was made for PvT, but it affected ZvP more if you ask me. )

Nerfing the Infestor this way doesn't fix the Immortal/Sentry "All In". It just makes sure that Carriers are super-effective always and that Zerg still dies to a mid-game Immortal/Sentry "All In".

(also you realize that interceptors bunch-up naturally making spreading of carriers WORTHLESS)


They don't do that unless you target a single unit. If you move your Carriers out in a line the Interceptors are going to be targeting units differently.
Edited by SadCritters on 11/26/2012 7:06 PM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]