StarCraft® II

Newkirk District - New Ladder Map

I don't really understand how protoss is supposed to hold a third on this map against zerg. It doesn't seem like it would be possible without taking it extremely late. Terran drops would be a major headache on this map too.

I know I am vetoing it, what about you guys?
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Your two choices are the Third to the North and the Third pocketed by the Main, east/west of the Natural.

I recommend taking the Third pocketed by the Main since it can be walled off easily with 3 buildings, and taking the Fourth will be much easier to secure. In addition, I can park my army between the Third and Nat, covering both bases from ground.

In the case of Mutalisks, my Blink Stalkers have less travel time between both the Nat and Main from my Third since the Main overlooks this Third. If I took the Third to the North, my Stalkers will have difficulty bouncing between the Main and the Third since the Third to the North is relatively far from the Natural.
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Yep, I've vetoed it without even playing it. It looks terrible and probably plays just as well.
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01/03/2013 11:54 PMPosted by Guilt
I recommend taking the Third pocketed by the Main since it can be walled off easily with 3 buildings,


Is this a joke I'm missing?
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01/04/2013 12:14 AMPosted by TechNo
I recommend taking the Third pocketed by the Main since it can be walled off easily with 3 buildings,


Is this a joke I'm missing?


Okay, maybe not exactly three buildings since my memory is slightly foggy, but the choke leading to the Third can be walled to the Ramp leading to the Fourth, and it's somewhat narrow.
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Can you at least look at the map before commenting on it? Because you don't know what you are talking about.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121220013208/starcraft/images/f/fe/NewkirkDistrict_SC2_Map1.jpg

Did you notice the giant open space between the natural and "third" that the zerg can just walk into? You can't wall that off and expand anytime reasonable without dying to any competent player.

Not to mention that is a terrible place to take a 4th because broodlords will just easily kill it within 5 minutes of you taking it unless you are going skytoss.
Edited by TechNo on 1/4/2013 2:28 AM PST
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The map was designed by a zerg player.
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01/04/2013 01:33 PMPosted by Anesthetic
I find this to be my best map in PvZ and PvT =S.


But how do you play a fast 3rd macro game?
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dont see how the third is any harder than cloud kingdom both are very wide
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01/04/2013 04:08 PMPosted by taketobreak
dont see how the third is any harder than cloud kingdom both are very wide


Cloud kingdom is far easier to take than that map. A bit awkward but still way less space.
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Kinda confused, 3rd looks pretty much pocketed, doesn't look extremely hard to take, ik ling run bys will do a lot of damage but you can still wall it seems, unless are you talking about the spawn points being the expo with 2 ramps? Cause it didn't seem like you start there in videos hmm.. Like above it kinda is like cloud kingdom
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They got rid of Shakurus Plataeu and than gave us a map that's EXACTLY like it. I don't know just do what you did on Shakurus Plataeu.
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01/04/2013 06:15 PMPosted by Hunta
They got rid of Shakurus Plataeu and than gave us a map that's EXACTLY like it. I don't know just do what you did on Shakurus Plataeu.


Newkirk:

-3 ff wide nat ramp
-4 ff wide west entrance to 3rd
-4 ff wide north entrance to 3rd

Shakuras:

-2 ff wide nat ramp
-2 ff wide southeast entrance to 3rd
-3 ff wide southwest entrance to 3rd

Shakuras is considered a harder map to hold a third as it is, Newkirk is far more difficult.
Edited by TechNo on 1/4/2013 6:40 PM PST
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Can you at least look at the map before commenting on it? Because you don't know what you are talking about.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121220013208/starcraft/images/f/fe/NewkirkDistrict_SC2_Map1.jpg

Did you notice the giant open space between the natural and "third" that the zerg can just walk into? You can't wall that off and expand anytime reasonable without dying to any competent player.

Not to mention that is a terrible place to take a 4th because broodlords will just easily kill it within 5 minutes of you taking it unless you are going skytoss.


That open space that the Zerg can walk into, that's where you park your army. I'm not talking about walling that portion off. Speaking from the 10 o' clock spawn perspective, the choke I am talking about is east of the Third.

And the goal of Late-game PvZ is to transition into Sky Toss, which is possible on Three Bases. Therefore, the Fourth that is south-west of the pocket Third isn't a terrible idea to take.
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01/04/2013 06:49 PMPosted by Guilt
That open space that the Zerg can walk into, that's where you park your army.


Yeah but it is a massive opening and you can't forcefield forever. Not to mention how you have to keep sentries at your natural ramp which is 3 ff wide. When you first expand you won't have much, and your immortals will likely be cut off from your third before you get more than 1-2 out of the main (unless you mass an army up then expand, but you're already super far behind if you do that). If you play a somewhat competent player he can just outright kill you maxing out on 3 base on a map like that. You have to be far better than your opponent to hold that.

01/04/2013 06:49 PMPosted by Guilt
And the goal of Late-game PvZ is to transition into Sky Toss,


Well that's news to me. You should tell that to 95% of the professional toss players who almost never go skytoss lategame PvZ. I'm sure they'd appreciate the advice.
Edited by TechNo on 1/4/2013 7:13 PM PST
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Maybe blizz is trying to knock us out of the "no rush 20" style games seem to have come to. As a terran player, being forced to expand toward my opponent encourages map control, and sending crap over dat massive void at the bottom of the level is great in TvP.

Blizz probably also assumed that protoss players 2-base all-in too effectively to care for a third. They also say the ladder ranks aren't messed up hardcore right now. Things just aren't right this season.
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I played 1 PvT on tha map. Won the game... and said "wow, I sure am glad that was PvT and not PvZ"

I then veto'd it.

Terran/Zerg players can enjoy the map if they'd like, I'll stick w/ maps I can safely macro on.

But yea, against a "good" zerg player, you are going to have a VERY difficult time SAFELY taking a 3rd base.

Not sure if I would like it for any 2 base play either, as the opening near the Nat/3rd is so big, I feel the amount of FF's required would be too high for an immo sentry. (against a good zerg). Would only take 2 FF baits to make you run out, then its GG.
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01/04/2013 05:22 AMPosted by Danule
The map was designed by a zerg player.

yup.. just veto this map if you aren't zerg

01/04/2013 04:08 PMPosted by taketobreak
dont see how the third is any harder than cloud kingdom both are very wide

cloudkingdom's 3rd is not nearly as exposed as this map
if the zerg just walks half his army around and flanks you at your 3rd.. you'll run out of FFs to defend very quickly.
Edited by JCKE on 1/6/2013 1:09 PM PST
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