StarCraft® II

Change in Forum name...

Posts: 2,848
This use to be "custom" forum but i guess blizzard did not like that name or subject so they changed it to: StarCraft II Forums Development, Feedback and Discussion Miscellaneous.. thoughts on that custom games forum no longer is around and we are considerd "miscellaneous"...
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Posts: 2,511
12/15/2012 06:24 AMPosted by hellsaura
This use to be "custom" forum but i guess blizzard did not like that name or subject so they changed it to: StarCraft II Forums Development, Feedback and Discussion Miscellaneous.. thoughts on that custom games forum no longer is around and we are considerd "miscellaneous"...


Place your mouse over the "Development, Feedback and Discussion" link at the top of this page. You'll see that there are now 9 map-making forums (Tutorials, Melee maps, Terrain, etc.). All the the old topics have simply been grandfathered into the "Miscellaneous" category.
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Developer
Posts: 45
Thanks, Khalanil! I'd also like to point out that there are two new forum categories as well. Forums about mapmaking can be found under Development, Feedback, and Discussion and forums allowing you to showcase your maps or discuss playing maps you enjoy can be found under Developer Showcase.
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Posts: 4,097
I feel like this category should be called "General Mapping" or something (and be the first subforum in the list)... for a moment there I didn't know where to go to find the main forum for mapping... since they all got split.
Edited by Onetwo on 12/15/2012 2:39 PM PST
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Posts: 351
I don't like that all map making forums are so scattered. They're all under different categories...
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Posts: 527
12/15/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Onetwo
I feel like this category should be called "General Mapping" or something (and be the first subforum in the list)... for a moment there I didn't know where to go to find the main forum for mapping... since they all got split.


Strongly agreed. "General Mapping" and it should be the very first subforum. The most general and common subforum should ALWAYS be the first one.

Meanwhile, "Miscellaneous" just give me the impression that Blizzard finally just want to throw us away & "flush" the old threads (often about complaints) despite their good intentions with those additional custom map subforums.

And yes, like Cherry, it's too shattered. I think a simple divide between "General Mapping", "Tutorials/Help", "Maps Showcase" would be much better.
Edited by Honejasi on 12/15/2012 9:38 PM PST
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Posts: 46
I almost always play devil's advocate and annoy people to no end in not rushing to judgment. It is not normal for me to be dissatisfied with a company and find myself unable to tell a story with some reasonable justifications for the company's behavior. Yet here, in thread after thread, there is no credible response to our remonstrances and Blizzard engages in behavior like this that looks like they just want to ignore their discontented if often quietistic fanbase. What is the deal? I mean, really?

I have been in forums before. The former custom mapmaking subforum wasn't active enough to justify splitting it from a forum optimization perspective. There really seem to be only two reasons for which they would have done this: either they want to discourage/quarantine our remonstrances or they seriously expect a bunch of traffic to magically come from somewhere and fill up all these subforums. The first is definitely not praiseworthy and the second seems downright silly to me.
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Posts: 527
A random possibility is the thought of "Let's show that we care about custom maps and let's split in lots of sections to truly show it! They only had one sub-forum after all!"

The problem would be that Blizzard tend to always show that they care on THEIR terms but way too little on the customers' terms.

If somehow that possibility is right then as a customer, I would care countlessly more if they did real improvements on battle.net 2.0's custom map side than custom map forums that fewer and fewer persons go on in the first place.

I guess the positive is they did try something which I expected they would try nothing before HotS is launched.
Edited by Honejasi on 12/15/2012 10:40 PM PST
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Developer
Posts: 99
So there's a few things that need to be mentioned about the reasoning behind our choices. Firstly, we decided to keep the old custom maps forum but rename it. We didn't want to lose all of the old information and threads that had been created by just removing it. We also felt that we needed to split up the forums because it was very difficult to find areas that you're specifically involved with or experienced with. If you look at SC2mapster or Team Liquid, or even Reddit, you'll notice one thing that was different from us: focused discussion that was broken up into subjects. By having everything broken out now the way that it is, our developers can easily find and answer threads in their area of expertise. Previously, the "custom maps" forum was very much a "catch-all" with absolutely zero rhyme or reason to the arrangement or organization (or lack thereof) of threads. It made it very difficult to find anything - for us or for anyone else either. Say someone new comes to the forum and wants to learn how to start mapping and is looking for tutorials - it was almost an impossibility. Say someone wanted to go and relay information on how they worked with the actor system to make an awesome new unit. Previously they could do that but it would very likely be buried in no time.

We took notes on mapster, tl, reddit, etc, and went from there. The organization is only a good thing - believe us on this one!
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MVP - StarCraft
Posts: 7,686
So there's a few things that need to be mentioned about the reasoning behind our choices. Firstly, we decided to keep the old custom maps forum but rename it. We didn't want to lose all of the old information and threads that had been created by just removing it. We also felt that we needed to split up the forums because it was very difficult to find areas that you're specifically involved with or experienced with. If you look at SC2mapster or Team Liquid, or even Reddit, you'll notice one thing that was different from us: focused discussion that was broken up into subjects. By having everything broken out now the way that it is, our developers can easily find and answer threads in their area of expertise. Previously, the "custom maps" forum was very much a "catch-all" with absolutely zero rhyme or reason to the arrangement or organization (or lack thereof) of threads. It made it very difficult to find anything - for us or for anyone else either. Say someone new comes to the forum and wants to learn how to start mapping and is looking for tutorials - it was almost an impossibility. Say someone wanted to go and relay information on how they worked with the actor system to make an awesome new unit. Previously they could do that but it would very likely be buried in no time.

We took notes on mapster, tl, reddit, etc, and went from there. The organization is only a good thing - believe us on this one!

I think most of us are aware of the positive effects, but there are negative ones as well.

Like I said in another post: Going by previous examples, if the forums aren't active people will leave them to post elsewhere. I've seen countless "Can someone help me with the editor? Nobody replied in the custom map forums" or "check out my map, I posted it in general discussion because nobody views the map showcase forums" threads in General Discussion even before this change was made.

People looking to help will have to check 12 forums with only a 25% chance of each one having a new post -- very tedious. As such many of them wont bother to try, and what few people are posting in the 12 forums will have less people helping them, which will discourage them further.

As I also said in a different post, there are certain forum changes that could negate these effects.

But if the development\community team is confident they can push through these negative effects and make it work; then best of luck. I do hope it works because in the long run I think I'd be much better.

But in the short term, I know I'm already getting tired of manually clicking through each sub-forum. x_x

(Small note: I really do think a "New Posts" button is an essential forum feature. Every forum I've been on in the past, I don't visit 60% of the forums unless a post from that forum shows up when I use the INCREDIBLY useful "New Posts" feature that all forums should have)
Edited by TheSkunk on 12/16/2012 8:55 AM PST
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Posts: 527
12/16/2012 08:52 AMPosted by TheSkunk
But in the short term, I know I'm already getting tired of manually clicking through each sub-forum. x_x


Same, I already gave up and I am only checking the "Custom Map Showcase" and "Misc" sub-forums. Not bothering to check other sub-forums unless I clearly have time to waste or on that once in a long blue moon while.

Tutorial-wise, it's so split that I REALLY don't want to check all of them. Also, some tutorials could use multiple aspects (ex : triggers + data + terrain) ... which category it should fit then? What if he put it in the wrong sub-forum for most people to look?

12/16/2012 08:52 AMPosted by TheSkunk
(Small note: I really do think a "New Posts" button is an essential forum feature. Every forum I've been on in the past, I don't visit 60% of the forums unless a post from that forum shows up when I use the INCREDIBLY useful "New Posts" feature that all forums should have)


Indeed, that's critical if Blizzard wants to keep that specific split-up (which they still should trim on the number of sub-forums instead). Forumers WON'T bother to check that many nearly-inactive subforums if they don't know if there was any new post to even bother checking.

I still greatly insist that the 3 custom map subforums should be "General" (the current Misc. which still include bugs/issues threads as well), "Tutorials/Help" and "Map Showcase" (including both melee/custom). Each of them become generic enough for people to look at all 3 of them YET specific enough to find what you really want.
Edited by Honejasi on 12/16/2012 9:15 AM PST
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Posts: 347
Splitting it up so it is more organized is fair enough but I think 9 sub groups is a bit excessive.

I think 4 would do it and stop things being split up so far.

  • melee maps - for the design of battle fields
  • triggers/Data - for the stuff that makes your maps tick
  • art and art tools - show off cutscenes, UI's, aesthetics or your cool custom unit
  • Project page - for discussing projects as a whole, gameplay, patch notes, team recruitment etc


Anyway, what is done is done and what will be will be.

12/16/2012 08:52 AMPosted by TheSkunk
I've seen countless "Can someone help me with the editor? Nobody replied in the custom map forums" or "check out my map, I posted it in general discussion because nobody views the map showcase forums"


pretty much all good help threads were answered though. The only ones left unanswered were the ones that could be solved in 5 seconds by typing the question into google or ones which say "my map is broken! It won't work!" with nothing of substance in them. I like helping people when I can and these threads make my blood boil so I've just given up replying to them. I'm sure others have too.

A showcase thread will not be burried so quickly so has a chance to be seen by more people so it will help them.
Edited by turtles on 12/16/2012 9:38 AM PST
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Posts: 46
I think most of us are aware of the positive effects, but there are negative ones as well.

Like I said in another post: Going by previous examples, if the forums aren't active people will leave them to post elsewhere. I've seen countless "Can someone help me with the editor? Nobody replied in the custom map forums" or "check out my map, I posted it in general discussion because nobody views the map showcase forums" threads in General Discussion even before this change was made.

People looking to help will have to check 12 forums with only a 25% chance of each one having a new post -- very tedious. As such many of them wont bother to try, and what few people are posting in the 12 forums will have less people helping them, which will discourage them further.

As I also said in a different post, there are certain forum changes that could negate these effects.

But if the development\community team is confident they can push through these negative effects and make it work; then best of luck. I do hope it works because in the long run I think I'd be much better.

But in the short term, I know I'm already getting tired of manually clicking through each sub-forum. x_x

(Small note: I really do think a "New Posts" button is an essential forum feature. Every forum I've been on in the past, I don't visit 60% of the forums unless a post from that forum shows up when I use the INCREDIBLY useful "New Posts" feature that all forums should have)


This is what I meant when I said the forum wasn't active enough to justify splitting up the custom subforum. In a better world Deletarius would be right that we'd have more granularity in subforums and therefore an easier time accessing information, but he didn't really address this issue that there are literally not enough active people to give the impression that the forum is alive. Does the person in charge have a bare modicum of experience with online communities?
Edited by euknemarchon on 12/16/2012 11:08 AM PST
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Developer
Posts: 221
We understand that this transition will take a lot of effort on our part. If we find that a new forum isn't benefiting the community then we can take action to improve it.

Here are some of my thoughts on why we went for this approach:
  • We will be very active in the specialized development forums and this should drive custom map developers to post their thread in the appropriate location if they want support from Blizzard.
  • Other sites like SC2Mapster have an even larger number of forums and yet have very strong and active communities. We want to build similar communities with official and direct support from Blizzard.
  • These forums give us a place to post documentation for the editor with a less structured approach than the previous tutorials that were posted. This should allow us to post more content and provide more help.

If you post a thread in one of the new forums, I can pretty much guarantee a Blizzard developer will read it. And we will respond to questions to with the information that we can provide.
Edited by Tenarsis on 12/16/2012 1:08 PM PST
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MVP - StarCraft
Posts: 7,686
Yeah, I'm sure you can make it work out -- but I think it'll be a rough transition, and some of my ideas are worth considering.
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