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player can make maps? I used to make countless maps back in SC:BW, ranging from bounds, bunker wars, rpgs, etc. But when Wc3 dropped the triggering system was just so advanced that I couldn't even begin to make heads or tails of it and I just gave up entirely...
So community I ask you, is there any way an old SC map maker can pick up map making in todays advanced editors, or is my cause hopeless?
And if so, how?
Edited by Valsoriel on 12/14/2012 4:08 AM PST
It's possible, but slow. I made multiple maps for SC1 myself (not that most of them were ever finished due to complications, but a few of them made it), and at first glance the SC2 editor looked like a creature from my worst nightmares. The trick is mostly to understand the Data editor and start with the basics. Don't even bother trying to modify actors for awhile, because those are incredibly confusing (I've spent two years with the editor, and I still am limited to a few basic options with those). Don't duplicate units if you can avoid it, because it generally calls up actor bugs that are difficult to correct.
Basically, the fields you need to know about are Effects, Behaviors, Weapons, Upgrades, and Units. Ability modification should be limited to some basics (changing energy cost, cooldown, and range), until you've mastered Effects and Behaviors. Requirements and Validators won't come in until you start making custom upgrades or abilities, and that can wait. Actors, again, are too confusing to start with, and almost everything else is irrelevant for most maps. The essential thing to remember about the Data editor is that it's modular. A unit calls upon an actor and a model to create its appearance, and a weapon or ability calls upon effects (and sometimes behaviors), which in turn call upon various actors and models to allow them to be seen. On its own, the weapon, ability, or unit itself does basically nothing. As such, creating one from scratch is a bad idea unless you know what you're doing.
For modifying what you need for basic maps, you should generally just click on a unit and look at all the stuff linked to it. For example, if you click on the Marine, and scroll down to its Effects tab, you'll only find about two effects. One applies the Stimpack behavior, and the other is labeled as a Damage effect. Obviously, changing that field will change how much damage the Marine does, as well as its bonuses against other unit types. If you want to modify other aspects of its attack, you need to check the Marine's weapon. Period is how often it attacks (the smaller the number, the faster), Range is obvious, and Target Filters are used to set what a unit can and cannot attack (for instance, the Marine can't target invulnerable units, for obvious reasons).
If you want to modify Stimpacks, you go to the ability itself or to the Stimpack behavior it applies, both of which are on that scrolling list of things that the Marine uses. Going to the ability will let you change its range (pointless on the Stimpack ability, but other abilities such as Snipe use it), energy cost, life cost, cast time (don't use Finish Time, that will just annoy the players), cooldown, and a whole bunch of mostly irrelevant fields. But please, make sure you're not putting any of that under the Refund section, because it won't work correctly. The Stimpack behavior itself, on the other hand, is where the actual bonuses are applied. The Behavior section on the behavior includes the modifications you make, such as movement and attack speed multipliers, damage bonuses (if you use the Fraction field, setting it to 1 means double damage, setting it to 2 means triple damage, and setting it to -0.5 means half damage), life and armor bonuses, and so on. Duration is under the Stats tab, and the Hidden flag there allows you to block anybody from seeing the behavior on the unit, which can be useful.
If you want more advice, the best I can do is to point you at ( www.sc2mapster.com ), which has a number of tutorials and solutions to problems. If you use the Search function there, however, then please avoid posting in those threads, because they are usually months or even years old.
It depends entirely on what you're trying to make. Naturally, a game with minimal data editing (like Nexus Wars with its stock melee units) is going to be comparatively easy.
Data is a lot harder than triggers because learning it entails much trial and error, but once you start to grasp the mindset behind it you'll find that there are countless ways to accomplish the same thing, just like with triggers.
Creating a trigger is super easy. Don't worry about conditions. Just create an event and you've got a working trigger. Every SC1 trigger operated under the same event of "every 2 seconds;" the only difference now is you have a choice of events. I hope that helps.
Really, the most practical advice I can give is to go to sc2mapster.com.
Here is the answer you wanted to hear:
Anything is possible when you put your heart and time into it.
How? the same way all things are done. You do little experiments to get to know how everything is connected, try to imitate/make cool things by exploring existing examples of how it was done (campaign has plenty of those). When you're stuck with a question you use search to see how person who previously had your problem solved it. Sometimes when you feel lazy you ask for direct help, probably on mapster or mapster irc.
I'm not sure if there's any concept guides out there but it would be beneficial for someone starting out in the SC2 Editor to have someone explain the basic concepts of the editor to them, rather than figuring out basic ways that the editor works by experimenting. Once you have the basics down, it's not as stressful and simply becomes learning more rather than fumbling around. You don't need to know much about the editor to work with it and learn. Other than that, my only advice would be not to immediately use Google or ask for help (not that anyone should say no when someone asks them for help because of that) because experimenting to identify something foreign will often be more memorable and definable. I'd also recommend starting with one module and working from there so you're not too overwhelmed.
But it is rewarding when you have a high enough level of knowledge with a module so the only cap becomes creativity, rather than knowledge.
Edited by Cherry on 12/14/2012 4:28 PM PST
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