StarCraft® II

Swarm Host Suggestion

So we've gotten word from Blizzard that they want the Swarm Host to be a viable mobile unit.
The thing is, no body wants to make a Swarm Host unburrow because it can't defend itself. This was the same for the lurker back in the day, but the lurker always still had its attack, while the Swarm Host can only spawn units as its offense. I have a simple suggestion:

Give the Swarm Host itself an above ground attack.

It doesn't have to do devastating damage or anything, but it would it not only make Swarm Hosts seem less defenseless when unburrowed (and thus encourage people to actually use it as a mobile unit, like blizzard wants) but it would alleviate some of the problem with needing overt amounts of Swarm Hosts to do significant damage. Why? Well, because Swarmhosts could burrow, spawn their locusts, unburrow, and actually attack along with the locusts. This creates a lot of interesting possibilities for micro and strategy, delaying between movement and counter attacks with the swarmhost itself to try to buy time for the spawn timer, and lets the swarmhost have better synergy with other Zerg units.

Thoughts?
Reply Quote
It's a sieging unit. It shouldn't be close to your opponent to begin with, so this doesn't make sense.

I know what Blizz was saying about burrow/unburrow mobile attack. I've seen Catz do it. The problem is, the only way he got to do it was super passive protoss, and threw all his resources in SH without support off the bat. Had the protoss just walked around the SH he wold have lost then, or at any time before then.

It's not the unit, it's the cost that is the issue.
Reply Quote
counter opption let it move when burrowed.
Reply Quote
Just let it spawn while its above ground but at a much slower speed.
Reply Quote
Well, I don't think the cost is actually the issue. The issue is the shear number of swarm hosts which you need in order to actually make them effective. Now this can be addressed by reducing the cost, but I don't think that would fix it.

If they were given an attack above ground, or were allowed to spawn above ground I think that would go against Blizzard's intended use of the swarm host.

IMO, the best suggestion I've seen in the forums(I don't remember his name, but this is not my idea) was to increase the number of locusts that each swarm host spawns(3 or so, instead of 2), and increase the supply cost of the SH to something like 4. I like this idea more, because it allows you to reach an effective number of SH earlier.

The other problem that other people(I believe ScoobySnacks pointed this one out, or was the first person that I happened to read) have pointed out for the SH is the investment. Due to how many SH you need in order to make them effective, it forces a large investment into the tech, and no good transition out of it. In other words, if you invest into the critical mass of SH, you're stuck with them late-game or you lose mid-game.

Honestly, I think the unit just needs more experimenting to find a viable late-game strategy that incorporates large amounts of SH.
Edited by DrizztKrieg on 1/13/2013 6:24 PM PST
Reply Quote
The problem with the Swarm Host is that it doesn't do any of the things it's supposed to do. They said it was an artillery unit but it's nothing like an artillery unit. The demonstration video showed 9 Swarm Hosts doing little damage. Imagine having 9 siege tanks firing on a base. The locusts usually die before they do anything and there is no splash damage. The point of artillery is to do damage in a large area. Cannons and mortars are examples of artillery because they launch high damage projectiles.

They also said it gives Zerg map control when it doesn't. Lurkers in Brood War gave map control because they did AoE damage and could decimate any ground forces that approached. A few Swarm Hosts won't stop anything larger than a 4 Zealot drop. You could achieve the same goal by placing a few Roaches around the map.

They also said it was a siege unit. The problem is that it's easily denied and your opponent doesn't have to come out of his base to deal with it because the locusts will just melt if they have adequate defense. If you invest too heavily in them, it's hard to transition out and the size of your main amy suffers.
Reply Quote
Maybe give locusts the ability to fly temporarily on their target similar to broodlings gliding ability with the brood lord? It would only be a projectile animation, so the locusts wouldn't be able to be damaged until they do a first hit to the ground target. Locusts are supposed to be able to fly anyway. The ability to control these locusts would also only occur after the first strike, just like broodlings from broodlords, but you still have the rally function, and locusts are launched to the rally. For balance, perhaps these locusts would be flung in sequence, intermediated by only a single moment, rather than both at the same time, and would set the broodlord apart from the swarm host. But doing all this would basically make it almost a broodlord, for the ground hell it virtually already is. I personally think blizzard only added immediate health markers to set the swarm host's locusts and broodlord apart from each other.

Suggestion Summary:
Launch gliding locusts one at a time to land on the ground at the target rally point.
(Invulnerable while gliding/just a projectile animation)
Reply Quote
Maybe give locusts the ability to fly temporarily on their target similar to broodlings gliding ability with the brood lord? It would only be a projectile animation, so the locusts wouldn't be able to be damaged until they do a first hit to the ground target. Locusts are supposed to be able to fly anyway. The ability to control these locusts would also only occur after the first strike, just like broodlings from broodlords, but you still have the rally function, and locusts are launched to the rally. For balance, perhaps these locusts would be flung in sequence, intermediated by only a single moment, rather than both at the same time, and would set the broodlord apart from the swarm host. But doing all this would basically make it almost a broodlord, for the ground hell it virtually already is. I personally think blizzard only added immediate health markers to set the swarm host's locusts and broodlord apart from each other.

Suggestion Summary:
Launch gliding locusts one at a time to land on the ground at the target rally point.
(Invulnerable while gliding/just a projectile animation)


Broodlord says hai
Reply Quote
Maybe give locusts the ability to fly temporarily on their target similar to broodlings gliding ability with the brood lord? It would only be a projectile animation, so the locusts wouldn't be able to be damaged until they do a first hit to the ground target. Locusts are supposed to be able to fly anyway. The ability to control these locusts would also only occur after the first strike, just like broodlings from broodlords, but you still have the rally function, and locusts are launched to the rally. For balance, perhaps these locusts would be flung in sequence, intermediated by only a single moment, rather than both at the same time, and would set the broodlord apart from the swarm host. But doing all this would basically make it almost a broodlord, for the ground hell it virtually already is. I personally think blizzard only added immediate health markers to set the swarm host's locusts and broodlord apart from each other.

Suggestion Summary:
Launch gliding locusts one at a time to land on the ground at the target rally point.
(Invulnerable while gliding/just a projectile animation)


Broodlord says hai


uh... hello broodlord?
Reply Quote
It's already been discussed that the Swarm Host is too much like the Brood Lord. My fear is that they will release the game as it is right now, without adjusting the Swarm Host, or replacing it with a more useful unit.
Reply Quote
01/08/2013 09:59 PMPosted by Ahuizotl
Thoughts?


I think it's pointless. Siege tanks have a undeployed gun, but if I can catch them undeployed, they're still f#cked all the same.

I'd rather not have to worry about my SH being stupid and running off because Mr.Toss tried to scout with a random probe.
Reply Quote
Maybe there could be an upgrade that is called "Chitinous Pores", which allows the swarm host to develop a protective layer over each pore, which increases the SH's armor by 2 when the formation the next generation of locusts is complete, and upon release, the locusts receive the extra armor bonus, and have a chitinous shield on their back, and as a result the SH loses its Chitinous pores until the next generation of locusts is raised. This is perfect for a getaway, increased armor, and you won't be attacking, so you'll have the benefit of the +2 armor unless you attack again. The armor bonus could possibly be 3, but that is up to the blizzard team to decide. The cost is also up to debate, but I believe that 175 minerals and 50 vespene would be reasonable, and take 50 seconds to complete the mutation.
Reply Quote
I think its a matter of changing the way the locusts get to their target. Instead of crawling, they should be launched like projectiles to their targets. Faster contact to selected targets, easier to block incoming targets, harder to find SH--better focused attacks. Terran tanks have immediate destructive effects, why not the Zerg SH? this would fix the Terran Turtling trends and force a Terran army to seek and destroy a besieging Zerg army "at the gates". Make the swarm host a Hive tech, an ideal weapon to use to crack open a deadly last stand fortress---as it is now, I have seen it failing to much.Combined with longer ranged brood lords, Zerg should have a very strong but slow army...finally giving them a nudge for going for better economy.
-----

Totally unrelated to SH but:

Add back the Scourge unit back to help Zerg make last stand gas expensive defense of their hatcheries from cheesy mass air from other races including Ravens. Because they keep nerfing Zerg units overall, massing mutalisks are becoming a one way ticket to losing a game against terran and Protoss who have superior, cost effective air units. I have been winning more games since I started to focus on roaches and Hydras and Infestors. I want the Zerg to be air competitive again.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]