Playing HoTS.. some observations

Posts: 10,770
Just thought this might be a good general place to talk about what's going on in HoTS right now, coming from a ~1000 point Master Protoss and with pretty unconventional strategies in WoL.

Tempests are amazing. Holy crap, if you get enough of them up, they have unlimited utility and the enemy can never attack into you (and I've been saying this all along rather than focusing on crap like DPS). In PvP, I've been starting out with some sort of Immortal expand (although I don't like it very much.. might go like 2gate Phoenix expand), and then getting Tempests on 2 bases. All you have to do is stay active with the Tempests and the Mothership Core for recall, so you can pick at his army, economy, etc. If you have enough Immortals, you make it totally impossible for him to attack into you with a lot of Stalkers (around 4-6 Immortals along with Zealots and Guardian Shield is super strong). In PvZ (and PvT if you can ever manage to get them up without dying), support with Storms and they can never launch an attack on wherever your Tempests are unless they have some really good Viking or Corrupter spreading (and have tons of them). Tempests are so good, I honestly don't have reasonable intentions of making Carriers anymore.

Free Hallucination! Great scouting tool. The fact that it required research all this time was kinda BS. Now if a Terran takes gas, you don't have to get a Robo to figure out what is going on behind his wall... THANK !@#$ING GOD.

The full-sized Mothership is worthless as hell now. Vortex does absolutely nothing.. Mass Recall is only useful if you derped your army really hard (not to mention it recalls back to a Nexus instead of everything to the Mothership). The only time I see it being worthwhile is in PvZ if you want to cloak a 3rd base and then snipe Overseers. I guess it could be good against Swarm Hosts?

I haven't made a single Colossus yet, and it's been awesome.

Oracles are decent, but they kinda lose to any sort of static defenses. Haven't experimented much with the time warp thing, but I'm sure it's really strong.

I think DTs are the most rare unit in the game right now, hence the low gas cost for the Dark Shrine. Almost everybody gets blind static defenses to prepare for Oracle harassment, so DTs will never do anything. Maybe in PvT, DT drops can still be strong, but it will definitely get blind countered a lot more often.

PvP is a pretty good matchup now. Lots of interesting openings and far less blind-counter wins with the Mothership Core on the field. Macro PvP is actually fun now, because Colossus builds die hardcore to Tempest builds.

Overall, the game really plays into Skytoss, Storm and harassment stuff.. things I always wished were stronger in WoL. HoTS is gonna be sick! So much less a-moving, longer battles, more harassment, and less blind-countering/guesswork. I'm excited.
Edited by Sidewinder on 1/6/2013 3:07 AM PST
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Posts: 3,501
Overall, the game really plays into Skytoss, Storm and harassment stuff.. things I always wished were stronger in WoL. HoTS is gonna be sick! So much less a-moving, longer battles, more harassment, and less blind-countering/guesswork. I'm excited.

Agreed with everything: went back and watched your VODs a bit, it was funy watching you figure out the new (lack of) mothership. :) The only thing I'm a bit miffed with is that in PvZ it feels like SG is not "an" option for macro games, it is "the" option. Or at least it seems that way, because transitioning from Collossi/stalkers/etc. is even harder without a real mothership.
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01/06/2013 07:17 AMPosted by BlackAdder
Agreed with everything: went back and watched your VODs a bit, it was funy watching you figure out the new (lack of) mothership. :) The only thing I'm a bit miffed with is that in PvZ it feels like SG is not "an" option for macro games, it is "the" option. Or at least it seems that way, because transitioning from Collossi/stalkers/etc. is even harder without a real mothership.


I still haven't played enough to know what works and what doesn't, but I still imagine that Immortal timings will be really strong and there still will exist Colossus timings, but they will be as all-in as ever.

I think the only thing that will keep all-ins and timings actually viable is the Mothership Core recall. Assuming the full game progresses the same way the beta is going, I guarantee that the Protoss idea of never losing units that cost gas will actually be a thing on the pro scene. Every timing will be willing to lose Zealots and then recall with the Core as soon as the Zealots are dead.
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Good post, still disagree with you about tempests vs. Carriers :-P

I think 2-4 tempests are enough to force an engagement and I'd rather have the carriers dps and tank when in a real fight. At least in my experience I've tended to lose games when I overcommitted to tempests.

What are your thoughts on fixing the mothership? Ive been thinking about a few ideas but I was curious about what you'd do to make the upgrade from the core viable again.

Also, does anyone else get a bit of a Necron vibe from the way recall is working out? For the non warhammer folk in here, the necrons are a highly advanced race that will always teleport out of a battle instead of losing. I feel like this 'conserve units at all costs' teleport escape strategy totally matches up with the protoss' 'desperate last stand by a dying race' theme, and I love it.
Edited by Badloss on 1/6/2013 3:19 PM PST
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Posts: 10,770
01/06/2013 03:07 PMPosted by Badloss
What are your thoughts on fixing the mothership? Ive been thinking about a few ideas but I was curious about what you'd do to make the upgrade from the core viable again.


I don't know because I don't know what role they want the Mothership to fill. Right now it's just a big cloaking beacon, but that doesn't do !@#$ against Zerg that have fungals, or Terrans that can just scan. If they keep it as is, it's simply an annoying way to bumble around in engagements if you can get your enemy's observer in a Mothership vs Mothership fight. Then it might take a couple Tempests vollies and die. Vortex is literally the biggest waste of energy I have ever seen.
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01/06/2013 01:35 AMPosted by Sidewinder
I haven't made a single Colossus yet, and it's been awesome.


This sounds very, very promising, and I'm very excited to be able to not make such a boring unit.

01/06/2013 01:35 AMPosted by Sidewinder
I think DTs are the most rare unit in the game right now


I was going to say that this title belongs to the Reaper, but then I remembered there was a Reaper opening in yesterday's GSL. :P
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