StarCraft® II

Mechanics of Starcraft: Hellion

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They are probably oxygen premixed flames where the blue color is coming from the spectral band emissions of CH and C2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame

Heat is fairly easy to negate as a weapon considering that you can just position temperature resistant low heat conductivity materials between you and said flame thrower.

Vehicles and large armored suits like the marauder suit could use ceramics along with protected fuel lines.

Flames are probably more effective against light units because of the tendency of the fuel to soak their intended target. That and they could potentially compromise any life support systems on either zealots or marines.
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Good thing you caught yourself early, you started that thought with two certainties.
Much better
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On my mobile, so bare with me...

@ sappy

First quote - yes that's basically what I meant. Maybe I didn't convey it correctly. I'm suggesting that the properties of the flame that we can't explain currently may be because Vespene is used on the mixture and due to the fact that it is a completely fictional substance? We do not know the details of Vespenes properties. And the reason Ellison only cost minerals is because the fuel comes pre mixed and isn't made on site.

Second quote - I'd have to say, be positive. A Canadian duo is working on a fusion core prototype that is spherical and uses methods similar to internal combustion to cooperate. If it works? The design is completely scalable and could be made small enough to fit in the trunk of one's car.
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Vendetta has been helping AoS for a while now, he's totally cool, unlike zappy.

PLEASE TROLL HIM BECAUSE HE LOVES A GOOD TROLL
Now this is the ideal fix
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01/07/2013 10:25 AMPosted by Vendetta
Good thing you caught yourself early, you started that thought with two certainties.
Much better


@ sappy


Vendetta has been helping AoS for a while now, he's totally cool, unlike zappy.

PLEASE TROLL HIM BECAUSE HE LOVES A GOOD TROLL
Now this is the ideal fix
You all hate me.....

01/07/2013 10:27 AMPosted by Einharjar
- yes that's basically what I meant. Maybe I didn't convey it correctly.
ok, sorry for misunderstanding then.

01/07/2013 10:27 AMPosted by Einharjar
I'd have to say, be positive. A Canadian duo is working on a fusion core prototype
I actually know what you are talking about. A private sector thing termed the thermonuclear diesel engine. Last i heard they had problems finding funding though. Even if they succeed, scaling the massive forces of their project (the compression pistons require TONS (literally) of force) down to hellion level would be another huge step past that.
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01/07/2013 12:08 PMPosted by zappy
You all hate me.....
You say hate, I say speak the truf as it is
#pancakes
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01/07/2013 06:14 PMPosted by Vendetta
You all hate me.....
You say hate, I say speak the truf as it is
#pancakes
You and your damn hashtags....
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It's all cool zap. As u stated in the vid - be blunt. I just wasn't clear enough me thinks. Yup.

The last tight budget they had was 4 years ago. I believe the largest lump fund from an investor was 125,000. How ever, that may have changed. Check out General Fusion. It's a registered entity looking to market the thermonuclear diesel engine and they are building a full sized power plant prototype. I agree with many though, seems odd to use pneumatic cylinders rather than magnetic.
Also the original design for this type of reactor began on the 50s after the Manhattan Project. The NAVY took it over in the 70s I believe and built working prototypes. The issues were not achieving the pressure ( as that was possible ) but the accuracy. The Digital age has allowed the accuracy to become possible. This is not the first time something of old has been resurrected - many unique aircraft back then no one heard of can fly today because of computers. Even the F-16 cannot fly without its computer system.
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I'd agree, it is possible, just it would require another huge technological breakthrough, such as computers, much less fly-by-wire technologies, to accomplish something like this in the hellion. Sorry if this doesn't make sense, i just got done playing a BO3 against theskunk and i am exhausted.
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01/08/2013 11:48 AMPosted by zappy
I'd agree, it is possible, just it would require another huge technological breakthrough, such as computers, much less fly-by-wire technologies, to accomplish something like this in the hellion. Sorry if this doesn't make sense, i just got done playing a BO3 against theskunk and i am exhausted.

Who won?
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01/08/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Fonzy
I'd agree, it is possible, just it would require another huge technological breakthrough, such as computers, much less fly-by-wire technologies, to accomplish something like this in the hellion. Sorry if this doesn't make sense, i just got done playing a BO3 against theskunk and i am exhausted.

Who won?
Can't say, boisterous is going to cast them.
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I believe that next break through is software, basically. We have the materials, we have the mechanics, we have the digital accuracy - we simply have yet to do it. The trail and error stage should start see the next big thing.
In order to do this, you will need a highly efficient program to monitor and control each and every piston, receive feed back of its effects on the plasmas, coordinate that information with the other pistols and continiously adjust each and every one of them so that the compression wave builds into a shockwaves right at the target point. I'll agree, this is an easier said than done issue. But t programmers and physicists are whom this is going to lay on the most.
I mentioned General Dynamic's F-16, how it can't fly without computers. Well, what about Lockheed's F-117. It's called the "Wobblin' Goblin" for a reason. It is physically incapable of flight. The 16 can at least glide but the Night Hawk cannot genuinely fly with out computer aid. The flight control processors make micro level calculations within miliseconds. Off those calculations it adjustes, applies and predicts flight characteristics using specially added control surfaces. This is the level of detial we are talking of. Only, we are capable of so much more now a days.
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01/08/2013 12:25 PMPosted by zappy

Who won?
Can't say, boisterous is going to cast them.


Looks like boisterous is going to be a regular staple with the AoS crew
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Posts: 3,769
I believe that next break through is software, basically. We have the materials, we have the mechanics, we have the digital accuracy - we simply have yet to do it. The trail and error stage should start see the next big thing.
In order to do this, you will need a highly efficient program to monitor and control each and every piston, receive feed back of its effects on the plasmas, coordinate that information with the other pistols and continiously adjust each and every one of them so that the compression wave builds into a shockwaves right at the target point. I'll agree, this is an easier said than done issue. But t programmers and physicists are whom this is going to lay on the most.
I mentioned General Dynamic's F-16, how it can't fly without computers. Well, what about Lockheed's F-117. It's called the "Wobblin' Goblin" for a reason. It is physically incapable of flight. The 16 can at least glide but the Night Hawk cannot genuinely fly with out computer aid. The flight control processors make micro level calculations within miliseconds. Off those calculations it adjustes, applies and predicts flight characteristics using specially added control surfaces. This is the level of detial we are talking of. Only, we are capable of so much more now a days.


The defense industry has something that most physicists lack and that is money. Whether it comes from grants, federal contracts, or private investors science needs money to pay for expensive equipment, software and the actual researchers. They all have families to feed and bills to pay.
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On an offtopic note:

Germans have developed LAZORz Cannonz! OMGWTFBBQ!

:D

No joke:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/01/08/weaponised-laser-cannon-rheinmetall-defence_n_2432382.html
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Posts: 1,059
01/06/2013 03:52 PMPosted by Ponera
I wonder what it is about their fire that makes light armour melt and any other armour laugh in their face. Also the preignitor- a pilot flame that changes the color? wouldn't it need a pilot flame anyways?


No, actual flamethrowers don't use a pilot light and, in practical application, most flamethrower users run the fuel and accelerant for a second or two before igniting so the target is already covered in napalm when the fire starts. This is esp. true in anti-bunker and anti-trench warfare, which is where flamethrowers saw their initial deployment: A sticky, spreading fire in an enclosed space is always a bad thing.

I think the more interesting question is this: how do hellions get more than one shot being as small as they are?
Flamethrowing requires a lot of fuel: backpack-type throwers held less than ten seconds worth of fuel, making them strictly a one shot and drop weapon, and hellions are pretty small. What are they burning that doesn't occupy space?

Also, why do hellions not do damage over time instead of instantly? Why do hellions not do better damage to mechanical (you'd think napalm would be hell on wires, rubber gaskets, fuel lines and plastics)?
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The defense industry has something that most physicists lack and that is money. Whether it comes from grants, federal contracts, or private investors science needs money to pay for expensive equipment, software and the actual researchers. They all have families to feed and bills to pay.


I am one hundred percent positive that the DoD and its contractor employ tons of physicists. There's a reason that things like nuclear power and the internet come directly out of DARPA and its programs.
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Posts: 6,242
I think the more interesting question is this: how do hellions get more than one shot being as small as they are?
Flamethrowing requires a lot of fuel: backpack-type throwers held less than ten seconds worth of fuel, making them strictly a one shot and drop weapon, and hellions are pretty small. What are they burning that doesn't occupy space?
I think i said earlier, it is likely that they only carry enough for a few shots when they go raiding. you never see marines go get more ammo from supply depots, yet they get it. Also, since we determined that the hellions are not using a heavy fuel such as napalm, they could likely use a gaseous fuel like propane compressed into tanks. You notice, especially in HotS, they explode fantastically when dying.

Also, why do hellions not do damage over time instead of instantly? Why do hellions not do better damage to mechanical (you'd think napalm would be hell on wires, rubber gaskets, fuel lines and plastics)?
Presumably armor is covering vital things like wires and fuel lines, so the hellions never actually see it.
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01/09/2013 10:03 AMPosted by zappy
I think i said earlier, it is likely that they only carry enough for a few shots when they go raiding. you never see marines go get more ammo from supply depots, yet they get it. Also, since we determined that the hellions are not using a heavy fuel such as napalm, they could likely use a gaseous fuel like propane compressed into tanks. You notice, especially in HotS, they explode fantastically when dying.

Even compressed gasses occupy space and it wouldn't shoot very far if it were a light fuel. I have a pretty big propane torch and it won't shoot a flame more than about 8" no matter how fast I run it. Plus, if you run compressed gas quickly it tends to freeze everything around it as it decompresses. Nor do light fuels burn very hot, wood and coal burn much hotter than natural gas, butane, and propane (the lightest hydro carbon fuels). In order to have range and be a weapon it would have to be a heavy fuel.

Additionally, as big as marine power suits are, they could carry a LOT of ammo.

Presumably armor is covering vital things like wires and fuel lines, so the hellions never actually see it.


There are always joints. Always.
Edited by BrockLanders on 1/9/2013 10:21 AM PST
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Posts: 546
Perhaps hellions use the same fuel to shoot their flamethrower that they use to move. It would explain why they can't move and shoot simultaneously.

Perhaps the fuel is solid, and oxygenated as well (so it burns in space or atmospheres with little to no oxygen. You know, like a rocket!) Solid fuel is very powerful, so a small amount could produce huge results. Considering the low life expectancy of any terran ground unit, they probably only carry enough fuel for a short engagement, which would make them light and quick. Of course this doesn't explain how the flames persist after leaving the nozzle in low to zero oxygen conditions, unless the stream of flames contains the fuel to sustain the fire within it. Perhaps there are additional additives inside the flamethrower mechanism to modify the engine fuel, a veritable chemistry lab to make a flammable cocktail of liquid death.

Earth is the only known planet that can sustain fire as we understand it, so we'd need to simulate earth-like conditions to use it. It also stands to reason that zerg or protoss, which are undoubtedly of a different physiology, could be very vulnerable to fire. Protoss units utilitize some kind of energy attack, which seems completely different from the chemical reactions that launch terran ammunition, so it is possible that the average protoss had never even seen fire until it came out of a firebat's nozzle.

Zerg originated on Char, a molten planet, so they would be used to high temperatures, but molten is not the same thing as burning. Burning is a chemical reaction, molten is just extremely hot. Nothing on Char is on fire, but its all very, very hot. Perhaps whatever compounds make up light zerg creatures burn easily when exposed to plasma.

Rawr.
Edited by AlexTheGreat on 1/9/2013 12:37 PM PST
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