AntigaShipyard 1.5.3 Balance v2.0 Discussion

Posts: 358
BTW: I'm not a zerg who it qq'ing - I play all 3 races, but these patches are making Zerg d*mn-near impossible...

And as for Antiga - it was never a good map and needs to be retired. (Terran win rates were consistently near 60%)
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Posts: 358
Why don't you take the upgrades away from broodlings too?
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Posts: 79
Change seems pretty fair. Infestors are still strong but they're not out of this world powerful.
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Posts: 2,881
Been playing HOTS, it is a good change... now FF to get a little nerf and we're good :D
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01/12/2013 08:36 AMPosted by Novae
So we're back to mass roach or die trying - how exciting.......


Ultra/ling/bane (at least in HotS) says hi.
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Posts: 2,448
how many ppl here went and tested this already? is it cross-position antiga? are the gold bases gone now so i can have an actual 4th base?

*EDIT* after testing, it seems the map is cross position only, but gold bases do still remain.

i think this will help in the few situations where it is necessary to engage infested terrans. i also think this will make it not as effective of a nuke to an army, as far as the later game goes. they are still damn good, but when u have 3/3/3, it wont be as devastating...
Edited by Fenix on 1/12/2013 1:00 PM PST
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Posts: 7,070
Can we please have the test not on Antiga?
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Posts: 118
Just played a few games. From what I can tell, cross positions are now enforced, but there are still gold mineral patches.

But, I have also noticed that most of my games are rather pointless. Since I am getting matched up to a random opponent, I am never getting any meaningful games. I only have one game that was close, but most of my games were completely one-sided.

I feel having this patch test as a custom game won't give Blizzard the best data to work with. There needs to be some way to get evenly matched players to play each other.

As for the change itself, it seems to be all right. It isn't breaking zerg from what I see, but since I am pretty low level (especially when I off-race as zerg lol), take my opinion with a grain of salt lol.
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Posts: 1,981
oops didnt notice this thread. Anyway heres my feedback

Well to begin i will say im a bit biased obviously because im terran, i apologize for this but its just the way i am.

I tested out the new balance update with a friend of mine and i can DEFINITELY tell the difference.

The number one way i die in lategame is when the zerg goes infestor bl corruptor, i invest heavily in vikings to defeat the bl corruptor, but they die to just MASSIVE amounts of infested terran.

The problem was that i couldnt figure out what unit to use to counter the amount of infested terrans each infestor could drop. Aside from killing the infestor before it spits out its infested terrans there just arnt any options, tanks and blue flame hellions are ok but the hellions arnt nearly enough and the tanks of course would have issues with the broodlord. Yes it can be done but its very difficult when his infestor count gets high.

In short this patch helps a ton in lategame, before i basically had to kill the zerg before hive tech or they would just be too much, but now my chances are much better.

So in short 1+ for this patch

Skip to 32:30 if you want to see what i mean with dying to infested terrans
http://drop.sc/293405
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Posts: 26
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Iron_Squid_%E2%80%93_Chapter_II

yet another tournament (like the last freaking 6)
where top8 is basically only Z.
IPL was the same, HSC was the same, etc.

WoL is absolutely broken, I do not understand how Blizzard thinks that fixing the IT upgrades is gonna fix a obviously much wider issue.... sigh :(
The queen buff and overlord speed destroyed both PvZ and TvZ, infestor is only one of the things that needs to be nerfed (and definitely more than this absolutely ridiculous IT change)
Blizzard doesn't understand SC2 will die because their game is becoming freaking boring to watch, boring because they allow a race to just turtle and then A-move to victory and you gotta witness the same thing EVERY game, and boring because no one wants to see only 1 race doing well. I am sick and tired of top8, top16 being only Z and having only ZvZ to watch is absolutely awful. Blizzard, please make it for the fans of esports -_-
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Posts: 2,429
Why not just remove infestors from the game? Or Zerg?

What you didn't notice is that players have been getting FAR fewer infestors due to the previous patch - this one will negate their use almost completely.

So we're back to mass roach or die trying - how exciting.......


It's all psicological. Infestors are still and will still be very good. The same thing happened with queens, they buffed queens and then they started to make mass queens.

Previous patches has not changed the use of the infestors, but gave a little more opportunity to other players to counter them
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Posts: 12
This might be a PvZ fix, but it does NOTHING for TvZ which is the most imbalanced matchup currently.

Infested terrans are not the big issue in TvZ, and the upgrades won't affect it because infested terrans use missile attacks as opposed to melee. Infestor-ling won't get missile attacks.
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Posts: 358
So we're back to mass roach or die trying - how exciting.......


Ultra/ling/bane (at least in HotS) says hi.


Against protoss? Ling/bane won't even hold off a gateway army, much less the 2-base pushes that hit long before chininous plating is done.

But I'm sure it's great against oracles...

(p.s.: this is a WOL patch)
Edited by Novae on 1/12/2013 9:30 PM PST
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Posts: 10,555
01/11/2013 07:20 PMPosted by ElvisTek
Okay so infestors have been nerfed yet again, so now you need to buff another zerg unit so we can deal with protoss air deathballs. That probably won't happen though because protoss will cry more and we'll just receive further nerfs lol. Oh well, 11 real life friends are switching to terran or protoss in hots, and 4 are quitting the game until balance has been reached, so gratz blizzard!


Hydralisks... Hydra everywhere, i have managed to destroy all protoss air fleet with only hydra. Hydra/zergling works


I have one word for you

Storm

If your opponent storms a zergling hydra army and they have nothing to kill the hydras, that with out moving will have 1HP left, it means you just played a bronze who just bought a masters account and is working his way down.
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Posts: 358


It's all psicological. Infestors are still and will still be very good. The same thing happened with queens, they buffed queens and then they started to make mass queens.

Previous patches has not changed the use of the infestors, but gave a little more opportunity to other players to counter them


It's also psychological that people fear infestors even though they can't win the game by themselves (unlike some tier 1 units...) - they're a primarily defensive unit to bridge to the late-game, and then they're a support unit.

These changes don't make infestors easier to counter, it makes them easier to ignore.
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Posts: 1,984
01/11/2013 08:06 PMPosted by MasterPanda
Hmmmm, we need a hydralisk buff to compsate for all the infestor nerfs.
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Posts: 1,207
A better approach to balance would be to promote an alternative strategy for Zerg before nerfing the Infestor. If the alternate strategy starts working, only then should you nerf the Infestor. For example. Buff Ultralisk base damage to 30, but keep their anti-armor damage at 40 (30+10). This will allow Zerg to pressure Protoss on the ground in a new way, so that they might be encouraged to mass Ultralisks at some point instead of Infestors. Currently it takes far too long for Ultralisks to kill Zealots for them to be meaningful in any way.

Furthermore, altering Zerg's late game anti-air could create situations in which they cannot stop certain Protoss armies. I think Zerg should have something that can match up to the Protoss death ball. There shouldn't be a clock, such that when it expires the Protoss automatically win.
Edited by Mujaki on 1/13/2013 7:42 AM PST
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Posts: 2,841
This shouldn't even be tested; just do it.
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Posts: 1,981
01/13/2013 09:28 AMPosted by HeReTiC
Infested Terrans are not the problem...


they are partially for toss, and they are for meching terrans. They give zerg the ability to just make the infestor (a caster) as their main army, because the infestor can generate an army on its own.
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