StarCraft® II

What do you do vs CC first?

Posts: 952
Scouted it and decided he was too greedy so I all ined and won, I don't like all ins so is there anything that I can do to try to punish it? I'd probably 1 gate expand but I'd still like to do some damage because what he is doing is risky etc.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,367
You can do a 3-gate pressure off of a 1-gate expand.

Follows the same build order as a 1-gate expand, but instead of dropping your 2nd gas at 29 supply, you drop 2 extra gateways.

(assuming you are doing a 26 nexus expand)

Don't have the entire build order memorized, but you hit around 7:15. With a composition of 4-5 sentries, and mainly zealots + a couple stalkers.

It is also important that you put your 23 pylon, out on the map somewhere, w/ your scouting probe, to warp-in for the pressure.

Otherwise, you can just put your build order on hold, and go straight for a nexus once you scout the CC first. Then resume your build once u have the nexus down.
Edited by Erpman on 1/8/2013 4:08 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,501
I've seen players build a fast third in response to stuff like that, but I don't know if that's really safe, haven't really tried it much.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,269
Try to harass their building worker with your scout, if you have the apm.

Pull workers out of gas, mine as little as possible.

Chronoboost the first zealot (optional), because you should be able to do some damage, and at least force repair on a depot.

Take a nexus as fast as possible after the zealot. Due to no gas mining this should still be reasonably fast.

For reference, watch Creator versus Sting game 1 (IPL Fight Club 44). Sting goes cc first, and Creator does the above as a reaction.

It's not safe to go fast third base. If the cc first is followed up with a marine attack (Flash vs Stork from MLG Kespa Exhibition tournament game 1, Creator vs Sting mentioned above), then the 3 nexus build will die.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,501
Actually, what I usually do and see done is to take a Nexus before Cyber core if this is scouted. You're still slightly behind, but it's really close and better than waiting for units. Just watch for a marine/scv all-in: the Terran can do that reactively.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,292
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=312133

early gateway pressure off 1 gate expand. ive been seeing this a lot in some recent tournaments.
Reply Quote
Posts: 605
01/08/2013 03:26 PMPosted by AMadWalrus
Scouted it and decided he was too greedy so I all ined and won, I don't like all ins so is there anything that I can do to try to punish it? I'd probably 1 gate expand but I'd still like to do some damage because what he is doing is risky etc.


Did you poke with zealot/stalker?
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,482
Double Expand and surpass your opponent's economic edge. Drop down a Forge if you want and follow it up with a 6-8 Gate attack at 8:30-9:00 with or without +1 Armor. The attack should trade some units from the Terran in order to weaken his ability to launch multipronged attacks.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,059
When I CC first, a Chrono'ed zealot makes me sad. So, just do that. and expand behind it. you should get there before the first marine pops and get enough SCV kills to even it back up.
Reply Quote
Posts: 10,727
A good Terran will have a smart enough build order to not take damage from chronoboosted units, and will have the scouting and adjustments required to hold stuff like 4gate or a Robo all-in.

You're best off not taking a gas and putting a Nexus down on 17.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,540
I just send a zealot over to the CC, and rally the ms core to snipe a few scv's.

in WoL, i just send in the zealots and maybe 2 probes. the probes make marine micro very ineffective.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,059
A good Terran will have a smart enough build order to not take damage from chronoboosted units, and will have the scouting and adjustments required to hold stuff like 4gate or a Robo all-in.

You're best off not taking a gas and putting a Nexus down on 17.


Watch LastShadow's games from the Red Bull Battle grounds, he went 0 for X going CC first vs any Protoss that chrono'ed a zealot (even on Condemned). And he is a GM on the Korean server. Who goes CC first all of the time.

Even at that level a chrono'ed zealot can be hard to deal with.
Reply Quote
Posts: 10,727
Watch LastShadow's games from the Red Bull Battle grounds, he went 0 for X going CC first vs any Protoss that chrono'ed a zealot (even on Condemned). And he is a GM on the Korean server. Who goes CC first all of the time.

Even at that level a chrono'ed zealot can be hard to deal with.


LastShadow didn't even belong at that LAN. He was by far the worst player there, and Day9 got a lot of flack for him being there at all over a legit progamer.

Even if you delay the CC by 30 seconds or so, the Terran is still way ahead economically, because it's not like you can send 1 Zealot and expect it to do everything for you. The follow-ups are what make chrono Zealot openers strong, and it's assumed that it delays your Nexus until at least 26.
Edited by Sidewinder on 1/12/2013 12:11 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,202
In MKP vs. Hero from Iron Squid on Entombed, Hero took a fast 3rd at like 5:44 and did a Parting style gateway attack off 3 base that was incredibly effective. I believe in one of the games in that series where MKP did a CC first, Hero did chrono out units but MKP held it fairly easily (with his godlike micro).
Reply Quote
Posts: 333
Stork attacked with 10 probes and came out ahead vs CC first. Not sure how much you can rely on that time after time, though :P
Reply Quote
Posts: 538
double forging after expo?
Reply Quote
Posts: 389
If i scout a gasless expansion, and I'm doing a gateway expand, I chronoboost out at least one zealot and b-line it for their natural. I almost always take out at least one marine (sometimes up to 3 if they come at different times) and the SCV thats building the bunker, and the SCV thats building the CC if they did that on the low ground. I usually start another zealot after my first zealot is out, but I don't chronoboost it out, and I cancel it if my first zealot didn't do anything. I keep that first zealot at their watch tower after I have dealt that little bit of damage.

I like to double forge after my expansion and do a 4 gate warp prism harass while doing that. I take my third while I'm keeping him on the defense.

A lot of terrans will now double cc expand (keeping one in their base for mules/SCVs) if they scout a gateway expand/nexus first. There really isn't anything you can do immediately to punish this, unless you cancel your nexus and one base allin (a decent terran will scout this anyway, since they like to send in late SCV scouts). Just do the 4 gate warp prism harassment while you take your third to keep up with it, and always chronoboost into probes to keep up with their worker production.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,059
Watch LastShadow's games from the Red Bull Battle grounds, he went 0 for X going CC first vs any Protoss that chrono'ed a zealot (even on Condemned). And he is a GM on the Korean server. Who goes CC first all of the time.

Even at that level a chrono'ed zealot can be hard to deal with.


LastShadow didn't even belong at that LAN. He was by far the worst player there, and Day9 got a lot of flack for him being there at all over a legit progamer.

Even if you delay the CC by 30 seconds or so, the Terran is still way ahead economically, because it's not like you can send 1 Zealot and expect it to do everything for you. The follow-ups are what make chrono Zealot openers strong, and it's assumed that it delays your Nexus until at least 26.


My point still stands, LS is a good player that still loses to a chrono'ed zealot. And you can still delay gas and expand on 17 or 18. That first zealot is going to pay for its self in forced defense and unit production. You don't need to kill Terran, you just need to force defensive play to get ahead.
Admittedly, LS was outclassed at that tournament, but my understanding is that he was a late addition after someone else cancelled.
Reply Quote
Posts: 566
01/08/2013 03:26 PMPosted by AMadWalrus
Scouted it and decided he was too greedy so I all ined and won, I don't like all ins so is there anything that I can do to try to punish it? I'd probably 1 gate expand but I'd still like to do some damage because what he is doing is risky etc.


Depends on the map.

I suppose on a map with a short rushing distance you could chrono out a zealot pull 5 probes and put some pressure on him, but you're better off just expanding ( you can skip the zealot.). The difference from a 1 rax FE and a CC first is pretty negligible IMO.
Edited by RyterA on 1/16/2013 7:36 AM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,362
4 gate? there's a good chance u can deny it or at least harass them constantly by rotating stalkers. unless he's got 3 rax + stim he's not gonna hold it
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]