Data Editor Field Hint Request Thread

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Developer
Posts: 222
We're in the process of writing additional documentation for the Data Editor and wanted to give the community a chance to help us prioritize what's missing as well as let us know where existing documentation doesn't go into enough detail.

For the purpose of this thread, please post the field name and which Data type (Unit, Behavior, Ability, etc) you are interested in. For example we are looking for posts like, "I'm having hard time understanding what the Kill Counter field for Unit does. I set the field to Default and it didn't seem to do anything." rather than "How do I set up a new unit that launches a barrage of missiles?". Being very specific in listing individual fields will help us understand what functionality we should focus on explaining further.

We look forward to helping you all wrangle the beast that is the Data Editor. Thanks in advance.
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Posts: 286
Things I am having trouble understanding in the editor:

1.) The editor

In all seriousness, more graphic oriented views of units (and things in general) and how each piece connects would be helpful. If I'm not mistaken, I think you guys mentioned something like this already.

Community response:
1.) Actors

a.) What format does the 3d model need to be in
b.) How to texture the 3d model
c.) How to apply it to a unit

Edit: I notice some things don't have tool tips. (Maybe that has changed since I last used the editor?) If you made sure each thing had a descriptive tool tip there would probably be very little confusion. Are people having trouble with fields even if a helpful tool tip is present?
Edited by Flopjack on 1/11/2013 4:26 PM PST
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Posts: 535
I know it is too generic and probably even off-topic but I think it's the actors that might require the most documentation in general.

For an essential part of the data editor, it still seems a bit too Chinese especially when you try something simple expecting X and it always seems to do nothing. Then simply forget anything advanced actor-wise after that.
Edited by Honejasi on 1/11/2013 11:05 AM PST
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Posts: 1,395
A large scale Break Down would be nice, I was going to do it, but I am only 1 person with limited time, For example, A section telling what each Unique field does for each type of Actor, In great description.
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Posts: 286
^Tool tips.
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Developer
Posts: 222
We are writing Actor tooltips and interested in any requests for specific fields. There are hundreds of fields and lots of functionality that we need to cover. We can prioritize any specific requests you guys have.
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Posts: 286
I mean, it's a bit more nebulous than that. Each person has different areas of the editor they need to use or don't understand. You're better off writing comprehensive information just on parts where people need the information immediately. That's a tool tip. Tool tips are an easy way to figure out what people don't and do understand (because the information is right in front of them, saves you documentation writing time, and if they still don't understand it then you can rewrite it or address that component specifically) while covering all your bases.

Graphical information in help areas would be nice for basic information to help people get started. Teching 101: most people respond better to pictures, but that's more work upfront for you. I don't think you should make uber comprehensive tutorials, but something like the Stalker broken apart with pictures to see the flow of how everything is connected would be useful.

If the Tool tip isn't large enough (but a large tool tip is fine, no thing wrong with more information) you can always write up something more details or bigger in documentation. Most tool tips won't require this I think, and your documentation can be pretty much organized tool tips. Tool tips. I've said tool tips a lot in this thread.

Edit: Is this something you guys are doing extra or is this in your normal development time?
Edited by Flopjack on 1/11/2013 12:33 PM PST
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Posts: 389
I have worked with the editor a lot for melee maps, but I want to look more into arcade maps. The first thing I want to do is learn how to load up custom 3d models. Things I would need to know are

  • What format does the 3d model need to be in
  • How to texture the 3d model
  • How to apply it to a unit

And probably a lot more. I looked around a lot in the editor and couldn't figure it out. Some more documentation could be very very useful to me here.
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Posts: 605
I already see tons of tooltips be added into hots beta editor(especially on actor fields). And I feel they are already enough for new users.

Though its not hurt to have more tooltips, deeper knowledge certainly need users to do more practice and learning from the forums. The editor isn't some thing you can master by simply watching tooltips. This editor is too powerful to be simple, if you want to learn it you'd better put some efforts on it.
Edited by Renee on 1/11/2013 3:51 PM PST
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Posts: 389
I already see tons of tooltips be added into hots beta editor(especially on actor fields). And I feel they are already enough for new users.

Though its not hurt to have more tooltips, deeper knowledge certainly need users to do more practice and learning from the forums. The editor isn't some thing you can master by simply watching tooltips. This editor is too powerful to be simple, if you want to learn it you'd better put some efforts on it.


I think they want to change that slightly. I know very many people who want to get into map making, but the editor is way too confusing and intimidating for them.
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Posts: 1,068
Missing : The ability to easily create an armor system based of percentages instead of values. ( thats my biggest pet peeve). The workaround revolves tons of preplaced buffs and if you want to have armor stack diminishingly its even more buffs.

as in +1 armor when you already have 10 armor gives less of a boost than +1 armor at a stock armor of 2. If you get what im saying..

This armor system is critical to hero type maps or any map that is based off warcraft 3.. Till then all the custom games are going to feel like crappy make overs cause the armor system is bull!@#$.

Regards maker of Zealot Frenzy.
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Posts: 605
This thread is a "I want to know what does this field do?" thread, not a "I want this feature" thread.

Plus what you want to do is too easy to be done with current editor.

Patch 1.5 allows you get the damage amount asorbed by behaviors. You just need create a behavior which could asorb 100% damage, and capture the damage amount via trigger, then use trigger to do the actual damage.
Edited by Renee on 1/11/2013 7:19 PM PST
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Posts: 108
Oh wow, thanks a lot for doing this! Just found this thread, hope I'm not too late.

I'll take a closer look over the next couple days for specifics, but here's one request:

Move the fields that can be grouped together (the fields with + signs after them) to the top of the priority list. Having those single fields explained well can at least point us in the right direction for the whole group of fields they represent.
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Posts: 108
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Tooltip Requests
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Actor Type: Multiple; Field - Art: Layer

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Other Data Editor Feedback
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There are dozens of actor types, and when looking through them looking for tooltips I want, I often find myself asking what the different section's purpose actually is, let alone a specific field within it. A great example of this is all the Site Operations. I understand the general idea of a site operation, but am clueless of the differences between each kind. If there was somewhere explanations of, not only actors, but every data editor "Type" in a tab could be explained, that would probably be the most effective explanations we could have to use a foundation of knowledge to build off of. Right now, even with tooltips for specific fields, us editors find ourselves trying to figure out what the "type" is for in the first place. Without a solid understanding of that, learning fields via tooltips only serve as context clues towards figuring out what the "Type" is.

The field in Actor type: Unit for "Combat: Custom Death+" ends abruptly and was left incomplete. Also it says " a atypical" instead of "an atypical".
Edited by Vindicator on 2/10/2013 5:37 PM PST
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Posts: 11
I think one of the things that I'm having the most trouble learning is what is edited where. I default to the Data Editor, but I've seen people mention "do it with triggers instead". For some things I know roughly where it is in the editor, but am not sure how to hone in and change what I need (for example, a few days ago I was wondering what fields I would have to change in order to make a death animation last longer. Due to HOTS's new dance animations, every internet search was filled with references to that). Some sort of documentation that explains the flow of things and how to find what you're looking for would be great (maybe a way to search tooltips?).

Another documentation idea that would be super helpful is to have some tutorial videos of people using the Data editor to make a simple game, similar to how Daz3D has videos on Youtube for using some of their products most common/most helpful features. I know there's the one written tutorial, but with the wide variety of what can be done in the Editor it really feels like that's not quite enough to cover it.

I know this isn't quite on subject, but it is related to Editor improvements and I'm not sure where else to mention it:

For changing the Model Art: Scale, the up and down arrows take the value up by 1.0, and it seems that most of the time you're doing smaller refinements. A change of 0.1 would probably be more useful.
Edited by BlademasterS on 2/5/2013 8:38 AM PST
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Posts: 100
Any field with a numerical value where it is ambiguous which result a higher number vs. a lower number will have. For example, Deceleration, or Push Priority.
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Posts: 3
Hi, I would like to know what currently undocumented Field MineralFieldMinerals (Minerals (Mineral Field))
(Basic) Stats: CBehaviorResource_IdealHarvesterCount 3 is used for. Will changing it change the value displayed by the town centre? Does it impact mining rate?

Thanks!
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Posts: 72
I think more detailed tooltips in the Hosting tabs of actors would be useful (I had a lot of trouble with them when using actors for the first few times)
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Posts: 108
Tooltips for the Attach Methods tab, especially "Logic" and the difference between the numbers defined for Keys and their Index.
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