StarCraft® II

Two needed carrier buffs for WoL

1: Infestors CANNOT root interceptors with fungal.

2: Increase interceptor base armor by 3

1 (expanded): Right now, infestors counter phoenix and voids as it is. Btw, spread out phoenix aren't good at killing anything, so dont' tell me to spread them.

Best I can do is flank with phoenix while battle is going on and lift the infestors before he realizes that the phoenix are there. This is a HOPE based strategy, which is not good, any good zerg player will fungal my phoenix before I lift them, no matter where I come from.

Did I mention that infestors counter voids? Two good fungals before they arc, then spam infested terran and apply root as needed.

Oh yeah, they can fungal interceptors (I never saw this until I played two TOP MASTERS in 2v2, who were also 1v1 master players). So they counter carrier.

Oh yeah they can NP the mothership and vortex instantly with only 50 apm.

Make those changes to carriers please.

On number 2, why the +3 base armor? So marine spam doesn't counter carrier as easily. Most of the time terrans RUN AWAY then hit hold position and shoot down the interceptors, completely defying the purpose of the carrier's hit points/armor (total of 7 armor when using guardian shield). They have essentially killed the unit when it's interceptors die. ACTUALLY, it's worse than killing it, because now it's 6 supply that can't attack.
Edited by Solomon on 1/24/2013 2:52 AM PST
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I have to say that I agree wholly with preventing root on interceptors... in fact i think it'd be nice if fungle growth couldn't root massive units period. However, I dont think adding base armor to interceptors is needed. although marines obviously aren't the only situation this would occur in, just think of this; if your carrier count vs the enemy marine count is bad enough that they can wipe out interceptors, they can also just run under your carriers and focus them down. If the enemy is derping and hits your interceptors you should be thankful.
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+1

I have to say that I agree wholly with preventing root on interceptors... in fact i think it'd be nice if fungle growth couldn't root massive units period. However, I dont think adding base armor to interceptors is needed.
This.
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On number 2, why the +3 base armor? So marine spam doesn't counter carrier as easily.

[quote="77083888477"]I have to say that I agree wholly with preventing root on interceptors... in fact i think it'd be nice if fungle growth couldn't root massive units period. However, I dont think adding base armor to interceptors is needed. although marines obviously aren't the only situation this would occur in, just think of this; if your carrier count vs the enemy marine count is bad enough that they can wipe out interceptors, they can also just run under your carriers and focus them down. If the enemy is derping and hits your interceptors you should be thankful.


Notice the bold print on easily.

Right now it only takes 6 equally upgraded marines per carrier (6 supply to 6 supply), in order to destroy all the interceptors with stim and hold position. So if I have 8 carriers, he only needs 48 stimmed marines to completely wipe out the interceptors. What's sad is these 6 marines cost far less in minerals than than the carrier, and cost 0 gas.
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mmm i believe your numbers are incorrect. From just random tests I did, it takes 10 marines to finish off a carrier (maybe 9, but if so just barely). If they simply a-move and stim, they take out all the interceptors then move on to the carrier, taking more time. If they target down the carrier, they kill it in a much shorter period and lose just as many marines.

I also found that in the other numbers you gave (8 vs 48, both unupgraded other than stim) carriers rolled the larger number of marines with no micro. with target fire, the marines still lost, but actually were able to take down 1 or 2 more carriers than without micro. 8 carriers can still hold up against a ratio of 1 to 7 marines (54 vs 8) without any micro, losing no carriers. Only once the marines reach critical mass can they wipe out the interceptors and leave the carriers completely vulnerable.

Now, this is without any micro, so they're just hitting the interceptors. big deal, carriers lose some interceptors. however, what if the marines are smart and actually target fire? in the situation of 8 vs 54, target firing marines in fact can defeat 4 of the carriers, compared to 0 when they just attacked the interceptors. My point? Interceptors dont need the armor because target firing the carriers will always be superior anyways.

P.S. these numbers are all without any micro on the carriers, especially with the new leash AI or fighting using the terrain to their advantage (or you know, flying away) the carriers will still to very good vs marines.
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01/24/2013 10:27 AMPosted by Solomon
Right now it only takes 6 equally upgraded marines per carrier (6 supply to 6 supply), in order to destroy all the interceptors with stim and hold position. So if I have 8 carriers, he only needs 48 stimmed marines to completely wipe out the interceptors.


Actually this isn't necessarily true (thought it may very well be).

As you play with the number of units each side has, the results can prove to be surprising. Why? Because you have to factor in the DPS lost as units are picked off. How fast does it take for 48 Marines to kill one Interceptor? How much DPS do the 8 Carriers lose because of that one lost Interceptor? How fast does it take for 8 Carriers to kill one Marine? How much DPS do the 48 Marines lose because of that one lost Marine?
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:( i made numbers blitz. use da numberzzz!
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01/24/2013 06:06 PMPosted by Phalanx
:( i made numbers blitz. use da numberzzz!


Woah, didn't see that.
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Love the no-fungal idea, but Interceptors are able to be rebuilt for a reason -- they can be killed. That much armor would make it incredibly difficult to kill the Interceptors in comparison.
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01/25/2013 08:57 AMPosted by NinjaDuckBob
Love the no-fungal idea, but Interceptors are able to be rebuilt for a reason -- they can be killed. That much armor would make it incredibly difficult to kill the Interceptors in comparison.


They are built in like 15 starcraft seconds. Or 10.
They are all gone, one pops out, it gets fungaled and dies.
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the point of carriers isn't to destroy the interceptors, the interceptors are more of a distraction to enemies with no micro. Killing off the actually carrier is what people need; making interceptors stronger has no real point at high levels of play.
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I have to disagree with the target firing being the better choice vs the carrier.

Marines DO kill the interceptors in absurd time, and like the OP mentions, they render your carriers into floating supply blocks because you can't even warp units to replace them for attacks.

It is just plain retarded how easily marines disable carriers and with 0 effort other than hitting T.
Carriers are super late game units they should require real counters be made to deal with them, not the most basic unit terran has.

I'm not saying the marine should be useless against it just that its just plain stupid how easy it is for them to deal with a carrier.

+1 for armor increase and no fungal on the interceptors.
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the situation that is presented with the marines vs carriers is almost always unrealistic. No one will only mass carriers vs terran. They would have support ground units, maybe some colo and HT to deal splash damage onto the marines. If and when the carrier gets it's interceptors removed, they can fly away for a bit and come back to full strength. supply for supply marines can not defeat carriers, even more so if the protoss actually uses other core units.
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01/25/2013 09:56 PMPosted by Phalanx
the situation that is presented with the marines vs carriers is almost always unrealistic. No one will only mass carriers vs terran. They would have support ground units, maybe some colo and HT to deal splash damage onto the marines. If and when the carrier gets it's interceptors removed, they can fly away for a bit and come back to full strength. supply for supply marines can not defeat carriers, even more so if the protoss actually uses other core units.


Nobody will mass carriers because it is a complete joke to do so vs terran.

You say marines lose per supply, I havent tested it, but hey, they should lose. They're marines with rifles shooting at a giant spaceship.
If you lose all your interceptors then bail you're throwing away piles of minerals and dealing next to no damage.
This isn't a problem just vs marines, but free units like infested terrans make the carrier even more embarassing at times. And chain fungal disabling giant spaceships by fungaling the interceptors is just silly.

I don't think its unreasonable to make the interceptors more effective, even if their armor upgrade is a research at the fleet beacon.
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imo just make them damage-immune and shorten the leash. too bland?
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base armour is there to prevent IT and marine rip carrier EASILY
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