StarCraft® II

What zerg really need

Posts: 622
A unit that can go rambo, or as a special forces type.

banshee, works great solo.
dt, works great solo.
voidray, can solo, hit and run and make opponent overcommitt in defense.

infestor. solo, is completely useless.
muta, solo, is completely useless.
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Posts: 992
well, obviously, you need...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBxcq9qjAu8
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Posts: 3,892
01/23/2013 04:29 PMPosted by Concretefist
infestor. solo, is completely useless.


IT good unit.
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Posts: 90
I agree. The broodlord arguably falls into the category as a good "solo" unit especially if you can position it over dead space. However, broodlords are not available anywhere close to DT's or Banshees. So broodlords are not the Rambo that you are looking for.

It seems you need to COMBINE two units that can make a unit with a Rambo hit and run type attack. I think I know just what you are looking for too. Try using overlords with the speed and transport upgrades to transport banelings.

This can devastate mineral lines just as much as a DT, banshee or a void ray. Also, it take out sentries, hellions or even a group of marines that are moving across the map. An overlook dropping banelings might as well be a single unit that can do major damage and then fly away.
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Posts: 6,820
01/23/2013 04:46 PMPosted by Linkebungu
infestor. solo, is completely useless.


IT good unit.


Not anymore
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Posts: 2,508
SOLO ULTRAS
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Posts: 4,926
Zerg are a "swarm" and "strength in numbers" type of race, so you'd expect there to be more numbers
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Posts: 3,879
01/23/2013 07:33 PMPosted by XSliceNDiceX
Zerg are a "swarm" and "strength in numbers" type of race, so you'd expect there to be more numbers


You would expect that but the opposite is true unfortunately.

Zerg needs a unit that costs 1 supply. *cough* Hydras.
Zerg needs a unit that gives them map control... like the Lurker.
The Swarm Host does NOT give map control and it is NOT an artiller unit, despite Blizzard claiming it is.
Zerg also needs some sort of defensive spell like Dark Swarm to defend against air.
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Posts: 3,892
01/23/2013 05:13 PMPosted by Hunta


IT good unit.


Not anymore


Yes it is.

Zerg needs a unit that costs 1 supply. *cough* Hydras.
Zerg needs a unit that gives them map control... like the Lurker.


They have two units that costs half supply (ling and baneling).
They have two units that give them map control (ling and mutalisk).

If you want to play BW, go play BW.
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Posts: 8,360
01/23/2013 04:29 PMPosted by Concretefist
infestor. solo, is completely useless.


2 full energy infestors can chain fungal an entire mineral line very quickly. IT's are still very good for harass as well.

Not sure what you are talking about.
Edited by TechNo on 1/23/2013 9:42 PM PST
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Posts: 3,879
They have two units that costs half supply (ling and baneling).
They have two units that give them map control (ling and mutalisk).

If you want to play BW, go play BW.


Seriously?
In Brood War, Zerg had lings and scouges that cost only half a supply. They ALSO had Hydras that only cost one supply. It's pathetic that the Zerg army in Sc2 is smaller because of high supply costs, needing to be one base ahead, and needing Queens that cost 2 supply each. And no, I don't want to "go play BW" even though it is more fun than Sc2 right now because of design flaws. I want Sc2 to be a better game, that's why I'm posting on Sc2 message board. I hope that clears things up.
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Posts: 165
Well you just wanna A attack all the way, I suggest you pick different race.
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Posts: 622
IT? really? 1 infestor with upgrade + travel time pops 4 IT's. how much damage is 4 IT? 2 festors pop 8. really? 8 marines at 8 min is going to hurt who?

after reading some replies, i forgot to mention that the condition is to be able to hit your opponent around 7 min. at latest 8 min.

even fast expo can pull a banshee at 8 min. or 2-3 DT at 8 min off of FFE.

the other condition is that it needs to hinders counterattack. banshee vs zerg even if not at base prevents early zerg army from moving out or even expand to 3rd. DT is similar, but DT can be transitioned into archons for later which with 2 weapon upgrade 1 shot 3-5 lings, and shuts down early zerg air. voidray is even better at map control than DT.

baneling drop so far is the most damaging tactic, but it does not scare toss or terran. they can easily counterattack because you just invested so much on banes, OL speed, and OL transport. and suicided them all.
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Posts: 622
2 full energy infestors can chain fungal an entire mineral line very quickly. IT's are still very good for harass as well.

Not sure what you are talking about.


and how are you getting infestors into the mineral line? and this is early game mind you. banshee, voidray, dt harass is no longer a harass after 8 minutes.
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Posts: 1,736
They have two units that costs half supply (ling and baneling).
They have two units that give them map control (ling and mutalisk).

If you want to play BW, go play BW.


Seriously?
In Brood War, Zerg had lings and scouges that cost only half a supply. They ALSO had Hydras that only cost one supply. It's pathetic that the Zerg army in Sc2 is smaller because of high supply costs, needing to be one base ahead, and needing Queens that cost 2 supply each. And no, I don't want to "go play BW" even though it is more fun than Sc2 right now because of design flaws. I want Sc2 to be a better game, that's why I'm posting on Sc2 message board. I hope that clears things up.


Its hard to compare to BW because BW also had 12 unit (it was 12 right?) control groups. It was much harder to manage your army. Army management is infinitely easier so it inevitably changes how Blizzard parses out unit supply.

I personally don't have a problem with how they choose to do Zerg. Though it would be nicer, and sounds more like it is fixed in HotS, if there was a more compelling to choice to use other units then just the infestor for the midgame.
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Posts: 8,360
01/24/2013 01:25 PMPosted by Concretefist
and how are you getting infestors into the mineral line?


Burrowing or dropping them in.

01/24/2013 01:25 PMPosted by Concretefist
and this is early game mind you


I didn't realize harassment only occurred in the early game?

01/24/2013 01:25 PMPosted by Concretefist
banshee, voidray, dt harass is no longer a harass after 8 minutes.


What the hell does this even mean?
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Posts: 6
I think that thay need like you said a good solo unit and a strong air unit. Wen I get late game with Zerg the terran have battlecrusers the toss have the mothership what do the Zerg have nothing the air units are week even if you upgrade them I think a good air unit would help alot.
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Posts: 1,893
2 full energy infestors can chain fungal an entire mineral line very quickly. IT's are still very good for harass as well.

Not sure what you are talking about.


and how are you getting infestors into the mineral line? and this is early game mind you. banshee, voidray, dt harass is no longer a harass after 8 minutes.


-He responded to you saying that infestors alone are useless. This have nothing to do with the stage of the game.

-There is a difference between a rush and a harass...
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Posts: 3,892
Seriously?
In Brood War, Zerg had lings and scouges that cost only half a supply. They ALSO had Hydras that only cost one supply. It's pathetic that the Zerg army in Sc2 is smaller because of high supply costs, needing to be one base ahead, and needing Queens that cost 2 supply each. And no, I don't want to "go play BW" even though it is more fun than Sc2 right now because of design flaws. I want Sc2 to be a better game, that's why I'm posting on Sc2 message board. I hope that clears things up.


These are two different games, there's no point comparing SC2 to BW. 1 supply hydras doesn't matter in SC2, 2 supply queens don't matter. I can understand you wanting SC2 to be as good as possible, but I feel like the game you really want it to be is BW, which Blizzard has said they don't want SC2 to be.

IT? really? 1 infestor with upgrade + travel time pops 4 IT's. how much damage is 4 IT? 2 festors pop 8. really? 8 marines at 8 min is going to hurt who?

after reading some replies, i forgot to mention that the condition is to be able to hit your opponent around 7 min. at latest 8 min.

even fast expo can pull a banshee at 8 min. or 2-3 DT at 8 min off of FFE.

the other condition is that it needs to hinders counterattack. banshee vs zerg even if not at base prevents early zerg army from moving out or even expand to 3rd. DT is similar, but DT can be transitioned into archons for later which with 2 weapon upgrade 1 shot 3-5 lings, and shuts down early zerg air. voidray is even better at map control than DT.

baneling drop so far is the most damaging tactic, but it does not scare toss or terran. they can easily counterattack because you just invested so much on banes, OL speed, and OL transport. and suicided them all.


01/24/2013 01:25 PMPosted by Concretefist
and how are you getting infestors into the mineral line? and this is early game mind you. banshee, voidray, dt harass is no longer a harass after 8 minutes.


It looks like you just want a unit that can give you quick, easy wins against unprepared opponents. You're confusing harassing with rushing. Harass occurs throughout the game. Hell, DT harass happens almost exclusively in the late game. DTs before 8 minutes aren't harass.

There's no problem with waiting a little for your infestors to get 200 energy, 16 IT can take down a base if left unchecked, or force a good amount of your opponent's army out of position, giving you the opportunity to attack when their army is split.
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