How I Jumped From Low Silver to High Gold

Posts: 6,704
*given my promotion put me in rank 7, I could rise or drop with a few games*

*I did this within a week of 1v1s*

MACRO!!!

...Combined with the unorthodox all-ins. I haven't lost a ladder game in a while outside of the occasional stray from my style and from being cheesed.

PvP -- Chargelot/DT/Archon -- Been beating all sorts of openings, even Robo-based. Funny, what I have the most trouble with is when my opponent DT rushes me X-D

PvT -- Also Chargelot/DT/Archon, sometimes a 4-Immortal bust (Double Robo, Double Gateway), weirdly good at least at my level. 0_o

PvZ -- 2-Base Chargelot/DT/Archon, sometimes with Immortals and Sentries if the game goes longer than I expected or if I decide to Forge-expand. Only thing my opponents can seem to do when I don't mess up is survive until Broodlords or kill me before I have my defenses up (I usually Gateway expand). Beats mass Roach quite nicely.

This brings me to a question, though -- at what point do these strats stop working? I don't see pros doing them much....
Edited by NinjaDuckBob on 1/23/2013 3:07 PM PST
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Posts: 287
If you want to jump to diamond, just 4 gate every game regardless of matchup.
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Well, think of what typically beats them:

1. A couple PvP examples: Blink, blink/Robo, robo with natural wall-off (after scouting chargelot/archon) and Collossi, a 4 gate (if you miss FFs) or especially 4-gate/WP can beat this before it gets going
2. PvT: Chargelot/archon/dt can be beat with MMM and decent control (if a fast all-in, they need bunkers and maybe a tower). Ghosts help.
2b PvT: Immortal bust is hard countered by 3 rax with heavy marines
3. PvZ: Roach/infestor. Or just mass roach with spines/spores at bases and a few Overlords. Mutas also do pretty well against this.

Basically, standard play at your level of skill will handle this just fine, although you'll probably do a little better PvP.
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01/23/2013 03:17 PMPosted by papercut
If you want to jump to diamond, just 4 gate every game regardless of matchup.

You know, I've got a second account, might as well try it and see if it's true. But my 4-gates against Terran have failed pretty hard, 2 out of like the 3 times I've tried it.
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01/23/2013 03:17 PMPosted by papercut
If you want to jump to diamond, just 4 gate every game regardless of matchup.

Awwww, but that's not as fun... well, what works works I guess haha

1. A couple PvP examples: Blink, blink/Robo, robo with natural wall-off (after scouting chargelot/archon) and Collossi, a 4 gate (if you miss FFs) or especially 4-gate/WP can beat this before it gets going
2. PvT: Chargelot/archon/dt can be beat with MMM and decent control (if a fast all-in, they need bunkers and maybe a tower). Ghosts help.
2b PvT: Immortal bust is hard countered by 3 rax with heavy marines
3. PvZ: Roach/infestor. Or just mass roach with spines/spores at bases and a few Overlords. Mutas also do pretty well against this.

Well, if standard play beats it, then I must be better than where I'm at in the ladder. Either that or I'm lucky when my opponents do different strats -- I don't see many early rushes aside from the 4-Gate and Marine rush, I usually handle those fine though with Sentries and Stalkers until my DTs come out. I need to find some better players to play against....
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01/23/2013 03:20 PMPosted by BlackAdder
You know, I've got a second account, might as well try it and see if it's true. But my 4-gates against Terran have failed pretty hard, 2 out of like the 3 times I've tried it.

I used to run a sase style 1-gate expand into 3-gate pressure in pvt
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5837014628

That gets a nexus and hits much later than a 4-gate with only 3 gateways worth of reinforcements. You can also wait for an additional warpin round and go with like 3 sentries, 5 zealot and 3 stalkers.

I used to win outright with that attack against 90% of platinum terrans and a lot of low diamonds. Still do it sometimes, but it gets a lot of early gas for the sentries and high diamond/masters players do things like use a barracks + supply depot in their wall at the natural completing a full wall which makes this attack a lot less effective.

If that killed a lot of people I imagine a 4-gate should have similar results.

01/23/2013 03:02 PMPosted by NinjaDuckBob
PvP -- Chargelot/DT/Archon -- Been beating all sorts of openings, even Robo-based. Funny, what I have the most trouble with is when my opponent DT rushes me X-D


DT expand into chargelot archon can still be effective at all levels, but you will struggle a lot against people who wall-off their natural with gateways.

01/23/2013 03:02 PMPosted by NinjaDuckBob
PvT -- Also Chargelot/DT/Archon, sometimes a 4-Immortal bust (Double Robo, Double Gateway), weirdly good at least at my level. 0_o


Immortal busts really struggle against lots of early marines which are a current favorite in the metagame right now. I still do them after fending off a 2-rax, but I don't like to do them blink because I kept walking across the map into a group of marines.

Chargelot/dt/archon can work, but it can also get shut down pretty hard. You have to delay them with dts enough to get up storm. Archons have a small range so marauders with conc shells just kite the zealots across the map then cleanup the archons. Scans really cause the dts damage to be limited.

01/23/2013 03:02 PMPosted by NinjaDuckBob
PvZ -- 2-Base Chargelot/DT/Archon, sometimes with Immortals and Sentries if the game goes longer than I expected or if I decide to Forge-expand. Only thing my opponents can seem to do when I don't mess up is survive until Broodlords or kill me before I have my defenses up (I usually Gateway expand). Beats mass Roach quite nicely.

This struggles a lot against roach heavy builds. Like a lot. Creator Prime's opening does dts into dt/immortal/archon, but roach builds just steamroll pure charglot archon.
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I feel like riding a 4gate all the way up to masters is only possible by learning the skills that will let you get into masters using any other strategy. It's not the cheese that gets you to move up, its your execution and improved ability all across the board.

Papercut is right that learning a single strategy and executing it perfectly can get you to move up, but honestly you're going to get bored pretty fast. I have no doubt I could be in masters if I really wanted to, but I'd rather tool around and try fun things without worrying about my league.
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01/23/2013 04:03 PMPosted by wraithcube
DT expand into chargelot archon can still be effective at all levels, but you will struggle a lot against people who wall-off their natural with gateways.

Well, good to know I'll still be able to use it sometimes up there :-) will watch for the walls, though!

Immortal busts really struggle against lots of early marines which are a current favorite in the metagame right now. I still do them after fending off a 2-rax, but I don't like to do them blink because I kept walking across the map into a group of marines.

Chargelot/dt/archon can work, but it can also get shut down pretty hard. You have to delay them with dts enough to get up storm. Archons have a small range so marauders with conc shells just kite the zealots across the map then cleanup the archons. Scans really cause the dts damage to be limited.

Yeah a lot of people in my level try to push too early against me with Marines and I fend them off with a few Stalkers -- by the time the Immortals come out, half their army is dead and they just can't kill all 4 Immortals combined with the Gateway support when I arrive at their base. Of course, at my level the multitasking abilities probably aren't optimal, so I can see how it'd be more of a problem higher up.

Yeah, Charge can help with the Marauder situation, especially if it's not heavy-Marauder, but in higher leagues both macro and micro is better so I can see how it'd be harder to back them into where they don't want to be (where they have to protect stuff) up there. Would sacrificing a couple DTs in favor of Sentries help?

01/23/2013 04:03 PMPosted by wraithcube
This struggles a lot against roach heavy builds. Like a lot. Creator Prime's opening does dts into dt/immortal/archon, but roach builds just steamroll pure charglot archon.

Hmmm, well then Zergs are probably just not prepared at my level. They do go Roaches but they have 'em pretty clumped up so the Archons do pretty good splash to them. I have found Immortal/Archon builds to be pretty sweet though, unless I commit to it far enough for Broodlords to come out.
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Posts: 6,704
I feel like riding a 4gate all the way up to masters is only possible by learning the skills that will let you get into masters using any other strategy. It's not the cheese that gets you to move up, its your execution and improved ability all across the board.

Papercut is right that learning a single strategy and executing it perfectly can get you to move up, but honestly you're going to get bored pretty fast. I have no doubt I could be in masters if I really wanted to, but I'd rather tool around and try fun things without worrying about my league.

I was sooo bored using the standard haha but I guess I'll need to more higher up. Actually I think the unorthodox has helped me with the basic skills more than 4-gate and 3-gate Robo. I wanna be able to adapt, though!
Edited by NinjaDuckBob on 1/23/2013 4:25 PM PST
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