getting extractors.

Posts: 63
what do you guys spend your 4 larva on when the larva pops? i usually get 5 or 6 larva and spend one for overlord and the other 4 i can saturate a gas geyser, when do you guys usually get your geysers? or do you just get enough drones and than grab your geysers? im not really sure how it works.
Edited by obis on 1/27/2013 2:22 PM PST
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Posts: 2,107
vs protoss, try to get in the habit of grabbing gas around the 6 minute mark.

in silver league, do players use the FFE build as protoss? or is it mostly 4 gate?

if it's 4 gate, you want to get a 14 pool, and a 16 hatch, then a 17 extractor (though some players are skilled enough to not grab an extractor til later). creep spread and spine crawler count have a lot to do with the outcome, but as far as gas timing goes, you will almost always get speed faster in response to this, than you would vs a FFE toss.

anyway, the reason that you grab gas around 6 minutes (if you do a 3 hatchery opening vs a fast expanding protoss), is because you want to have your drone production completed before you take your gas- so that you can be economically stable enough so that you can spend all your larvae on units by the time they push out. you take gas at around 6 minutes, because that's when you should have enough drones to be stable enough to grab some tech/upgrades and even roaches if you want to.

people will expand on the toss builds more if you tell us specifically what matchup you need advice on. i just wante to give you a brief explanation about it before we hop into a discussion.

vs terran, i open with a fast expand (15 hatch) and grab a pool at 15 supply and gas at 17 supply. if you do a queen heavy opening, you want to get your 4 queens out before you take any gas - but if you like having early speed (like i do, which helps with getting you map control, harassment, while queen builds are more defensive in nature) you should use the 17 extractor build. it also allows you to start a +1 melee upgrade while you're droning, which gives you a head start before you fully engage in tech.

vs zerg, i like aggressive openings, because, you typically want to always keep their drone count lower than yours, so that you have a huge advantage over them in all phases of the early-mid game.

i open with 15 pool (to be safe), 16 hatch, and 17 extractor. i start speed right away, saturate my minerals, and take a baneling nest with my next 50 gas. next 100 gas i start a lair.
there are gasless builds that are becoming more and more common in ZvZ, but they require good queen micro, and good walling. you basically want to have all your timings 100% on spot, or you could get ling all inned before you even complete your wall-off.

anyway, what matchup did you want advice on in general? and then we can go into more depth on the gas timings :D
Edited by KILLorD on 1/27/2013 3:27 PM PST
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Posts: 63
Zvp and zvt are the match ups i like to think about because for the protoss match up people say to grab 2 geysers at 6 minutes and i noticed that thats when your main and natural mineral fields are fully saturated with 16 drones on minerals so maybe thats why they grab there gases? i'm not really sure i always think there should be some concrete explanation on when to grab your extractors like talking about mechanics wise.
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Posts: 2,107
terran it comes down to preference. do you like to be defensive vs more map presence. if you need map presence to feel comfortable, then you really should be grabbing gas as soon as you can (at least 1 extractor) simply to just have speed earlier, and start upgrades/tech to make sure you're strong enough to really even stay on the map (hence the starting your upgrade sooner, and getting lair earlier). defensive play is relying on queens to shut down banshee/hellion harass, and getting better creep spread as a way to get your map presence, but you're really focussing on pure economy before you are pushing/harassing with anything. so that comes down to your style really.

vs toss, you're correct, you typically delay your speed because you want to focus on drone production first. a protoss that expands is not going to be pushing out with very much (at the most 1 stalker and 1 zealot to harass your quick 3rd), so you really don't need to delay your economy just to hold that off. you saturate your mins first, and by 6 min you can take 2 gasses and start upgrades/tech/roach production in preparation for their attack.

before 6 min, any attack would really be all-in for the protoss, because their economy wouldn't be stabalized, and they wouldnt' be able to reinforce very strongly, so if they lose with their heavy attack - they are pretty much screwed.

seems liek you pretty much understand the reasoning though :)
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Posts: 796
it actually depends on what the enemy has. but normally i start off with 14 extractor and pool.
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