StarCraft® II

Best answer to 4gate

Posts: 40
What is the best way to deal with a 4 gate in a 14pool FE? and when is the best time to scout for it?

i have had success with throwing down a single spine crawler at my nat and making 3-4 additional queens (so 5-6 total) and getting slow lings to defend while i tech to roaches.

is this a good way to deal with it? or is there a more efficiant way?

TehAzard.
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Posts: 2,107
creep spread and spines. i also throw down my gas after my first queen is finished. i use a creep tumor with her after her initial inject. i start my first 2 spines as soon as i really can afford it, so i can run them down to my natural as soon as the natural is done. i get early speed and 3 total spines is enough to hold for me.

i'd say less queens, more lings, and you shouldn't even need roaches to deal with it, even if they go zealot heavy. slow lings are ok, but you can pretty much win with speedlings, after you hold and crush his army/proxy setup, and run over and end him. if you have slow lings, it'll be harder to pull off.
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Posts: 40
thanks ill try that next time, also do you have a suggestion on scouting? i usaully just overlord scout but should i send a drone in and save my overlord to sack later?
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Posts: 2,107
you should be on time with an ovie scout. if you see his natural is not taken, and you see the cyber core on the ramp, expect the worst, throw down the gas, and drone up/get creep spread started, and like i said, i usually add 2 spines as soon as i'm saturated on my main, and then a 3rd when speed is like 75% finished. (you should have the 100 mins to spare).

i usually drone enough so that i can keep my 3 drones on my gas, and add an evo chamber for upgrades, or go for a lair/3rd hatch. but if you didn't get a chance to drone heavily enough, you can always pull them.
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Posts: 13
If you don't see a FFE, alter your build to something like this:

15 pool
16 hatchery
18 gas
17 overlord

Make a pair of zerglings. Send one to their nat, one to the tower.

If they don't have an expo down by 5 minutes start 2 spines and start building lings. If it is a 4-gate, you'll have mass ling + spine, try to surround his units in range of the spines so you get their added dps. While the attack is happening, start teching up to roaches (and of course drone up if you feel comfortable with your army supply. After he gives up, you'll have 2 bases, roach ling and you should be able to just crush him.

If the attack doesn't come by about 6 minutes and he STILL doesn't have a base, build an evo chamber and a spore at each base. That'll shut down both dt play and voidrays.
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Posts: 40
Nosforit
i had a game very simmilar to this moments ago. i scouted a pylon and gateway walling off his ramp and a cyber core next to his nexus (come to think of it i should have just made lings and ran inside his base, herp derp.)
so i threw down some gas for ling speed and made 2 spines at the front, after scouting his base he didnt expand for a realy long time, sakcing my ovie i noticed starports so i took another expand, threw down a couple spores and began lair into hydra/ling. scouting him take another base i knew he was being way to greedy, i expanded again and shutdown his 3rd then basicly steamrolled him with superior economy.
Edited by HMTehz on 1/28/2013 1:17 PM PST
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Posts: 4,319
zealots are the key to 4 gate in pvz. get them surrounded and don't let them dps your spines (3 is a good number) and you're golden. Just be aware of what he does next. 4-gate is pretty all-in so if you end up trading armies and losing your spines, rebuild 1-2 and morph in more speedlings. If you see him expand, go roach. If he tries to ninja tech to colo, get a spire. Get an overseer no matter what. 50/100 to shut down DT which could wreck you if you don't
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Posts: 32
You drone up to 30-35. Make a single spine.

You can either go ling/queen/spine gasless, or get gas and roaches. I would recommend you go roaches, unless the map is like Shakuras, where you have a relatively small ramp to the natural that makes static defense extremely strong (3 spines, an extra queen, no way a 4 gate will ever get up, and if he tries to rush past it, you make a ton of lings quickly and finish off his army).

The reason I recommend roach/ling as defense, is because eventually, you will defend this 4 gate. If you go gasless, meaning you go mostly with spines and queens (which isn't viable on maps that are super wide open, at higher levels Toss can just react by expanding if you put down the necessary amount of spines on the wider natural maps, and you will need a lot), you can't deny Toss from putting down his natural. With roach/ling, you can eventually counter-push and delay Toss' natural for so long, that by the time he gets it, you will have followed up by droning up to ~44 drones, gotten 3 gas lair, and roach speed, and just won with an unbeatable mass roach army.

taken from belial's zvp guide
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Posts: 1,736
4 gate is pretty easy to spot. You're looking for only 2 pylons at 5:30, that means the third is being placed forward. And a lot of chrono saved on the Nexus. If there's no natural by 5 mins just float your overlord up and see what they're doing.

I prefer to hold it with roaches. Just be careful if it doesn't hit by 6:30 at the latest it may be a DT 4 gate in which case you need to make sure you have an evo down and spores starting by 7 minutes.
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Posts: 40
thanks guys. i have no idea why but i have just been crushing opponents jsut from knowing a little bit more about the meta and the various timing attacks each race can throw at me and the info given from my first overlord scout.
i just need to get better at poking with my initial lings and sacking overlords at 5-6 minutes for more info. guess this is the differance between the higher leagues.
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Posts: 1,736
Zerg requires the most information, but we have pretty good scouting. Yes nothing beats a scan, but scanning before 10 minutes is pretty hard economically on a Terran and that's when you need the info the most.
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Posts: 40
i use to think zerg scouting was terrible, but a pre placed ovie behind their main and on on their nat is all you really need early game to detect cheese. mid/late its a little harder.
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Posts: 2,970
as soon as i see its not a ffe, i throw down a gas, then roach warren. get speed, and then roaches with all your gas, and lings with whats left. 1 spine crawler is sufficient, if it dies, build another. if u want to be SUPER safe, u can build 2 to begin with. if he isnt expanding, its either dts or 4gate, so basically what i do is if if it isnt clearly a 4gate by 5:30, throw down an evo chamber, and get a spore. scout your base for pylons for obvious reasons...

i dont think extra queens is really a good idea, u dont really have the money for it, but if u miss some larva injects or something, spend your money any way u can.
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