StarCraft® II

Best answer to 2 proxy rax

Posts: 204
Hmmm... so what is the best answer to a 2 proxy rax in my base? I tried two things and I can't tell that either worked wonders (meaning I lost with both).
- The first was to kinda ignore it and try to get roaches before they got any large amount of zealots out. This failed as roaches came out way late (when I practically lost all my drones)
- The second was to try 3-4 spines around the base, doubling up (as 3-4 zealots beat a spine left alone), but this set me up quite a bit back - maybe similar to what toss had, maybe worse.

Is there a clean answer that is pretty much guaranteed to get me ahead assuming I scout it (which is not impossible, but not a given either). A plus would be minimal micro, as I'm just a plat with relatively low APM - if I micro, my macro suffers!

One thing that I tried was to eat up the pylon with drones, but it was hidden so well that only one drone got to it, and was not enough chewing until the first zealot showed up. What I was thinking to do next is to try to eat up the gateways with drones but I'm not sure I can finish it off before zealots are out, or that it would not put me too much behind if I put 5-6 drones to chew on it.

Thanks!
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Posts: 13,522
Start 2 spine crawlers, a queen, and start making lings continuously.
If he attacks you, micro drones to help out. You will probably have to cancel a spine (this is why you start two, you only need one to finish).

As soon as your queen and spine finish, you are secure. Continue making zerglings and rally them at home for defense, but take all of your slow lings and run straight across the map to his base.

Defend at home with queen + spine + new lings + drones, and your group of lings will go and interrupt his economy, forcing him to stop making zealots (or just outright kill his probes).
Edited by Oboeman on 1/26/2013 4:02 PM PST
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Posts: 204
Sounds swell - I don't see how he can defend this - the crux is to hold at home with queen, spine, new lings and drones. I'll certainly try it out.

Thanks!
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Posts: 244
I assume you mean proxy 2-gate, not proxy 2-rax (terrans build raxes. Protoss build gates, and zealots).

You should throw down maybe two spines in your mineral line. They'll have enough range to hit everything that you need to defend. If the zealots try and kill the spines, surround them with drones.

Here's a good vod of somebody holding it without a problem:
http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls5/vod/71083
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Posts: 204
Oh, man, I can't believe that I asked about 2 rax. Indeed, I'm asking about 2 proxy gates. I assume that the answer from Oboeman (who's in line with what you suggest) applies to 2 gates.

The 2 proxy rax is somewhat easier to hold for some strange reason - maybe because the marines are squishier or require higher level macro (not available in plat).

Thanks!
Edited by Aladdin on 1/27/2013 9:35 PM PST
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Posts: 1,108
A recent discovery from Catz looks very promising. If you scout early, it's possible to find the terran base and see no barracks.

Start a proxy hatch in their base and don't take your natural.
Throw down a roach warren and gas when pool finishes.
Start 1 Queen at your forward hatchery, skip the queen at home. Make only the minimal defenses needed to survive until you can get roaches out, 3 roaches at home should be enough as they will buy you enough time to make more roaches as needed. Make roaches at your forward hatchery,

Terran options:
Push on with the attack and ignore the forward hatchery.
Kill the hatchery with SCV's
Send the marines home to kill the hatchery.

If they push on with the attack, you will be able to hold it by making additional roaches and using drones as needed. Only a few roaches will be needed from the forward base to cripple their economy.

If they kill the hatchery with their SCV's, their already limited economy is crippled and they will be unable to continue marine production. You can crush the push and take your expansion.

If they send their marines home, your economy is still better because they stopped at 11 to make barracks, and most of your larva is free to drone.

It's a very unconventional response, but from what I've seen it's the best counter. It's quite possible to hold 2 rax builds with a 15 hatch expansion and 2 spines, but it doesn't seem to put zerg in the dominate position that a proxy hatchery does.
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Posts: 13,522
yeah my answer was for 2gate, because your question didn't make any sense if you actually had meant 2rax.

kaz is that a 15 hatch in their base with your drone scout?
Edited by Oboeman on 1/27/2013 10:07 PM PST
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Posts: 1,108
Yes
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Posts: 1,108
Heh, rereading the post, Oboeman's answer is correct for holding a 2 gate proxy rush. Though It's far more enjoyable to randomly decide to 8 pool and stumble on their 2 gate :). I try to remember names of opponents I play, it's very gratifying to know what cheese they are looking to do at the start of the game.

Against protoss 2 gate, placing your spines in your mineral line (where they can still cover your buildings), is very helpful. You can surround the spines with drones to prevent zealots from auto-attacking them. It forces protoss to manually select drones. You can also right click mineral lines to shift your drones (they ignore unit collision when sent to mine). Using this technique you can easily surround low health zealots to finish them off.
Edited by Kaz on 1/28/2013 1:07 AM PST
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Posts: 14
just rage
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Posts: 585
I still think 11 11 rax with 5 scvs pulled is borderline unstopable even in hots. Wish they'd fix this already. I'd like to see some sort of queen buff that only applies to the queen when its within a certain distance of a hatchery or something. Terran now has widow mines, protoss the mothership core, zerg needs something to defend early cheese.
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