StarCraft® II

Storm dropping Zergs

Posts: 157
I've always wondered, why don't Protoss storm-drop Zergs later in the game? I don't mean the drones. I mean the larvae. Larvae die to a single storm.

A warp prism with just 2 HT's at 125 energy each can storm 2 hatcheries worth of larvae, and feedback the queens injecting them, possibly killing them outright. On a map like Cloud Kingdom, a warp prism with 4 HT's could theoretically hit the main, and the macro hatch, the 3rd, and the 4th bases.

Just drop 2 HT's in the main, feedback both queens and storm the larvae, then either pick them up and, or turn them into an Archon while you move your warp prism in between the third and 4th bases, storm and feedback there, then, if it's still alive, pick up the Archon, and bring it back behind your lines.

Archons are already a staple in PvZ, so are HT's now with the fungal range nerf. And, if you were to do this right before, or during a major battle (if you have over 9000 APM), with 2 warp prisms to get all of their possible hatcheries, you can prevent Zergs from remaxing after said battle, and steamroll their puny reinforcements.

Even after a battle, you can kill eggs with 3 storms. It's obviously not as economic and effective as storming just larvae, but either their eggs can die, and cost them money, or they can cancel. Either way, the larvae used to make those eggs is destroyed.

The only risk is that they catch your warp prism, at which point you can simply unload your HT's one by one, storm their army, and feedback their infestors, causing at least some damage to their army. If they have mutas, unload, storm, and morph into Archons if possible.

Thoughts on this?
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Posts: 16,186
Because it is not worthwhile...

You storm drop 2 bases and kill 60 drones, Zerg just remakes them in 2 production cycles, meanwhile, you lose 4 HTs per drop and maybe 200 minerals and that's resources lost that aren't part of your army. Zerg attacks you with Infestor/BL/Corruptor and you have 4 less HTs worth of gas in your army = 600 gas, then Protoss has a higher chance to lose the game.

Hell, even at pro level, Hero did this HT dedicated drop tactic several times in games and all he did was lose resources while Zerg just remaxed drones and pushed and killed Hero because he was down in gas units...

Yeah, storm drops are bad in PvZ in WOL.
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Posts: 8,360
Not worth it at all.
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Posts: 852
01/28/2013 12:50 PMPosted by TechNo
Not worth it at all.

chargelots way better since they can ACTUALLY kill building( Hive + spire)
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Posts: 10,727
Eh, I disagree. It is worth it as much as warp prism Zealot harassment is, if you stay active. Most people say it's not worth it because they probably just don't have the APM to keep it up all game long (and I don't either) and do everything else that needs to be done in the late-game. So, not a matter of just not being good, it's just really hard to do.

What you should really be doing with warp prism Zealot harassments is warping stuff in to one base, fly the WP to the next closest base and Storm drop in the meantime. Forcing Zergs to divide their attention is harassment enough, even if it doesn't cost them a lot of money. They can definitely repopulate drones but it also cuts into their late-game bank and can very easily move their army out of the way so you can be clearing creep or getting a better position with your army.

Watch Ace vs BboongBboong from Up/Downs in like season 2 or 3 of 2012.
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Posts: 8,360
01/28/2013 01:29 PMPosted by BoZiMagnet
Most people say it's not worth it because they probably just don't have the APM to keep it up all game long


You should read the OP of a thread before commenting in it.
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Posts: 6,714
I would hate losing 60 drones and not being able to rebuild an army as fast compared to losing my larva and just getting alot of it back in 40 seconds.
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Posts: 1,267
Storm drops are good. They aren't as necessary as zealot drops, but can still be used, especially later in the game.

Edit: storm the workers, not the larva.
Edited by Trfel on 1/28/2013 3:43 PM PST
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Posts: 245
01/28/2013 12:43 PMPosted by Zamara
You storm drop 2 bases and kill 60 drones, Zerg just remakes them in 2 production cycles


That's 3000 minerals.
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Posts: 852
01/28/2013 04:18 PMPosted by Lite
That's 3000 minerals.

8000 minerals bank + 40 larvas.
Edited by ACIDCYCLONE on 1/28/2013 4:31 PM PST
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Posts: 16,186
01/28/2013 04:18 PMPosted by Lite
That's 3000 minerals.
And?

Zerg is on 6 bases and maxed with a bank of 4000-5000 minerals to Protoss' 3 base economy, implying a minimum of 2000 minerals per MINUTE for Zerg. Sorry, that number of 3000 minerals or even the 8000 Acidcyclone quoted is meaningless when Protoss is incoming BARELY 600 gas a minute and loses 600 gas in 2 drops then gets attacked in the next 20-30 seconds, and Zerg is able to replenish his drones without actual damage/slowdown to his economy.

It is STILL a bigger loss for Protoss for no actual advantage, while Zerg is just losing drones he instantly replaces, and the funny thing is, he doesn't even need to replace all the drones at once. As long as 1/2-3/4 of the number of drones lost are replaced, Zerg's economy does not suffer at all, and Protoss will STILL lose the coming battle because he lost 600 gas in a drop that did no damage in essence.

So, again:

Not worthwhile.
Edited by Zamara on 1/28/2013 5:10 PM PST
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Posts: 16,186
Storm drops are good. They aren't as necessary as zealot drops, but can still be used, especially later in the game.

Edit: storm the workers, not the larva.
That's irrelevant in PvZ at the highest levels where Zerg players aren't missing injects and are banking thousands of resources when Protoss is barely saturating his 3rd and is only now able to support his lategame tech.

It might actually be more damaging to storm larvae because that's time and energy lost by the Zerg, and if the Protoss can (and most likely cannot in practical situations) mount an attack, there is not enough larvae to reinforce, and may allow Protoss an advantage, but often, when storm dropping, Protoss has no other army to pressure Zerg with, especially against a spine forest, 20-50 infestors, 12-20 Broodlords and corruptors all in varying proportions to counter the Protoss army composition.
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Posts: 10,727
01/28/2013 01:44 PMPosted by TechNo
Most people say it's not worth it because they probably just don't have the APM to keep it up all game long


You should read the OP of a thread before commenting in it.


You're implying that I didn't?
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Posts: 4,317
how are you gonna get past all the creep and overlords? best case scenario is you storm larvae and lose the HTs and WP. it's hard enough to drop zerg to begin with but at least with zealots it's possible to get a favorable resource trade. You are talking about trading 250/300 for ZERO. I realize larvae are critical and all that, and maybe there are extremely particular situations where this could work, but generally speaking you should not trade 250/300..... for ZERO.
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Posts: 8,360


You should read the OP of a thread before commenting in it.


You're implying that I didn't?


I know that you didn't. Because you missed the entire point of the thread.

01/28/2013 12:31 PMPosted by SuicidalZerg
I don't mean the drones. I mean the larvae.


01/28/2013 01:29 PMPosted by BoZiMagnet
They can definitely repopulate drones but it also cuts into their late-game bank
Edited by TechNo on 1/29/2013 1:11 AM PST
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Posts: 10,727
I know that you didn't. Because you missed the entire point of the thread.

I don't mean the drones. I mean the larvae.


Wait wut. Several other people didn't mention the larvae at all. I like how you singled me out. I don't think you even know who I am, cause i think if you did, I doubt you would be doing this.

The overall theme was "are storm drops useful?", and the OP posted a way they could be useful. I said the way that I get utility out of them. If his overall theme was "is storming larvae a good use of energy?" then my answer would have been obviously different. If you want my specific answer on that, it's not that great of a way to spend energy because larvae in late-game ZvP is not terribly important.
Edited by BoZiMagnet on 1/29/2013 9:18 AM PST
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Posts: 8,360
Several other people didn't mention the larvae at all. I like how you singled me out.


Well I have Zamara on ignore and ADIC simply said that killing buildings would be better. I assumed he had actually read the OP.

01/29/2013 09:08 AMPosted by BoZiMagnet
I don't think you even know who I am, cause i think if you did, I doubt you would be doing this.


I don't see how that has anything to do with missing the point of a thread.

01/29/2013 09:08 AMPosted by BoZiMagnet
The overall theme was "are storm drops useful?"


No it wasn't, it was "is storming larva useful".

01/28/2013 12:31 PMPosted by SuicidalZerg
I don't mean the drones. I mean the larvae.

01/28/2013 12:31 PMPosted by SuicidalZerg
storm 2 hatcheries worth of larvae


01/28/2013 12:31 PMPosted by SuicidalZerg
storm the larvae


01/28/2013 12:31 PMPosted by SuicidalZerg
you can prevent Zergs from remaxing after said battle


Nearly every paragraph talks about storming larva. I think it is safe to say that is the "theme" of his thread :/

I apologize if you were just going off on a tangent, was in a bad mood yesterday so probably shouldn't have overreacted, I was confused at how your post didn't mention the actual question this thread was asking.
Edited by TechNo on 1/29/2013 9:38 AM PST
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Posts: 10,727
Lol. Thread SS right here. I'm still confident that if you knew who this was, you wouldn't be doing this.

STAND IN STRAIGHT LINE! ALL RESPOND THE SAME!
Edited by BoZiMagnet on 1/29/2013 9:47 AM PST
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Posts: 8,360
01/29/2013 09:46 AMPosted by BoZiMagnet
Thread SS right here.


Not sure what this means.

01/29/2013 09:46 AMPosted by BoZiMagnet
I'm still confident that if you knew who this was, you wouldn't be doing this.


Ah you are Sidewinder. I apologize coming across as rude, but it really looks like you missed the point of the thread with your original comment.
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Posts: 10,727
Plenty of people didn't comment on storming larvae, and more people would rather read a Protoss player's thoughts on what they would do (or not do) regarding Storm drops rather than reading an argument over what their responses should have been. I don't see why you are wasting your time.

I mentioned that Storm Drops as a whole are not used frequently because they require too much attention, so that's the answer to his question.
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