StarCraft® II

Storm dropping Zergs

For my calcs I was in no way discussing storm drop in the context of pre-late game also. It could work whenever, but if you are getting wp speed it is kind of expensive before maybe 4 base.

back to the op:
storming just the larvae could be worth it if you have a lot of free apm and they either are on t1 units or you have speed. There is no reason to not have speed late game if you plan on using wps at all.
there are probably better investments, but if you want to slow them down its a pretty nasty way to harass

You are right about it being dependent on their comp also. You would def not get storm just for harass before late-game when you need archons anyways. It is becoming less standard to go heavy roach unless it is a big timing attack/all-in in the current meta though. Either way it isn't going to become standard, but that is kind of the point. it is a tricky harass tactic they probably aren't ready for.

for storming either drones, larvae, or both:
Is it ideal? probably not
can it hurt zerg a lot? yes if you can pull it off
is it more of a gimmick below high level play? no
Edited by CakeMountain on 1/30/2013 3:07 PM PST
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for storming either drones, larvae, or both:
Is it ideal? probably not
can it hurt zerg a lot? yes if you can pull it off
is it more of a gimmick below high level play? no

That's a fair summary, although I think you're stretching a bit on "a lot".
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http://www.twitch.tv/colminigun/videos?kind=past_broadcasts

minigun loves his wp against z if you wanted to see what a top NA gm does with it.

I couldn't pull it off yet, but if you can use it well wp storm or chargalots can be pretty damn OP
Edited by CakeMountain on 1/30/2013 5:06 PM PST
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01/30/2013 05:06 PMPosted by CakeMountain
I couldn't pull it off yet, but if you can use it well wp storm or chargalots can be pretty damn OP

Double speed warp prism with 8+ chargelot warp-ins are deadly, because they can kill hatches and spines as well as drones. Even InControl makes them look darn good.
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If you can keep them alive its defintely good, but usually the zerg will come back with corruptors or make some static defense. If you can get one or two good ones off and immediatly attack, it's amazing.
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What have y'all to say about Archon drops? As easy to drop as Zealots, are ranged, have more HP, and have AoE DPS that doesn't require energy. And how about that follow up of a Chargelot and/or DT warp-in for the extra kick?
Edited by NinjaDuckBob on 1/31/2013 1:55 PM PST
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01/31/2013 01:53 PMPosted by NinjaDuckBob
What have y'all to say about Archon drops? As easy to drop as Zealots, are ranged, have more HP, and have AoE DPS that doesn't require energy. And how about that follow up of a Chargelot and/or DT warp-in for the extra kick?


I believe feelings are about the same that it's too large of an investment for what it does. Besides with storm drops you normally bring along 2 templar, lay down storms, then turn them into an archon to fight anyway :P
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Because first of all HT come very late in PvZ, they, along with archons, are some of the last units you really want in your army as you head into the late game. It's difficult to harass at that point because if zerg really wants to they can have spores and spines everywhere

Second of all, it does work. Obviously it works in fact, but so does sending a group of blink stalkers or DTs to snipe a hatchery. Killing larva and queens can be done in many ways, not just through HT drops
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01/31/2013 04:54 PMPosted by Violata
Second of all, it does work.
No one denies that; the worth is what is questionable here. It's always much better to use Zealot drops/warp-ins.
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01/29/2013 01:01 PMPosted by Zamara
When you have 6-8 Hatcheries and about 10 mins worth of banked larvae + a bank of 5k/3k


I think if a zerg is on 6-8 bases, have 10mins of larvae and 5k/3k, the the only way to beat them would be to kill as many larvae as you can, attack, and hope you win (through micro ect.).

And honestly, if the zerg can afford to trade 30-50 drones for 250 mins and 300 gas, then it's already gg. So saying that the drop won't do much is pointless.

Although zealot drops are very useful, storming a bunch of larvae before a major, maxed battle could help prevent reinforcements, which would be extremely important, given that the toss micros well.
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02/01/2013 09:49 AMPosted by Zamara
It's always much better to use Zealot drops/warp-ins.


Yeah, without a doubt. You'll kill just as many drones and you may kill a hatchery, which is a lot more valuable.

Zerg has basically infinite minerals in the late game, the only actual limiter is larva and gas.
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02/02/2013 04:19 PMPosted by tbpimaster
And honestly, if the zerg can afford to trade 30-50 drones for 250 mins and 300 gas, then it's already gg. So saying that the drop won't do much is pointless.

I'd really like to see 2 HTs do that much damage in storms against a typical lategame.
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I've always wondered, why don't Protoss storm-drop Zergs later in the game? I don't mean the drones. I mean the larvae. Larvae die to a single storm.


I would say because of 2 main reasons.

#1 It is not worth it. Storming the drones would be more beneficial.

#2 Protoss in general, do fewer storm drops, due to the APM requirements. It is really easy to load 4 zealots into a WP, and just shift click it to a mineral line, and shift click it to drop all units, and even then shift click it to go into warp mode.

Meaning, you can move a WP to a mineral line, and unload zealots, and have it ready to warp-in more units, without even having to watch the warp prism. Same with Terran doing drops, they just shift click the medievacs to do harass drops during engagements.

Storm drops require a lot of APM, you have to babysit the warp-prism, and also go through the motions of storming.

The vast majority of Protoss players, that are not playing at a Pro level,do not have the APM required to do this effectively.

Is it worth it? Yes. Are most of us capable of doing it at an effective level? No.

But, storm dropping the drones is without a doubt worth it, if able to do so properly.

---In response to people saying late game zerg has a high bank and can afford to lose the drones... I would say that simply means you are doing the storm drops incorrectly.

If you are going to storm drop a zerg, you have to be doing it thorughout the game, BEFORE the zerg gets a 200/200 army, on 4+ base.

It needs to be done before this, in order to PREVENT a 5k bank from ever occuring. That is where the true power to storm drops comes from.

The next issue, is that HT's + Storm, in PvZ, is generally a LATE game unit, you USUALLY (not always) don't see HT's w/ storm before the 15+ minute mark. Storm is just not a normal "goto" tactic before this, as it is not very effective vs Roaches. If you try to get storm too early, you will find yourself losing to roach pressure / roach max pushes. Thus delay'ing your storm, and making storm drops less effective.


^^
Edited by Towelie on 2/3/2013 9:37 AM PST
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this convo is still going on?

cant we just agree that its a stylistic choice?
Edited by CakeMountain on 2/3/2013 10:03 AM PST
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