StarCraft® II

Patch 1.1.1 Notes

To people that really think some of the 'automation' should be removed:
Consider that the pros are still finding 200-300 actions to perform each minute, given all of this supposed help for noobs. That means that the pros are able to plan and execute more complex strategies than they previously could, which is what an RTS is ultimately about. If you were to make basic tasks more complicated you would be removing depth of strategy from the game.

Edit: Also wanted to mention that APMs that high are basically the limit of human dexterity, so the goal should be to maximize a player's possible strategies given that amount of APM. Less automation of basic tasks would mean fewer possible strategies.
Edited by Annihilisk on 9/27/2010 7:56 PM PDT
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"Fixed an issue where queuing Return Cargo on a worker would cause it to ignore the built-in delay after it finished gathering."

I am very disappointed in this being removed. This was a great trick for higher level players. It really brought purpose for apm in the beginning. The trick was almost impossible to do later in game when there were basically waay too many workers to do it with.

I think they could of just removed it on the mule and kept it. I'm very tempted to make a petition on bringing this back.


Looks like we are alone in this regard. Everyone else wants handouts to free up action and NOT DO ANYTHING WITH THEM.

Why do we have "APM doesn't mean anything" threads every day? Cause of this BS right here., eventually it might even be true.
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Just because there are some old games that are masterpieces that doesn't mean that their 10+year old interface is not outdated.

Can you imagine if today's games tried to "stick to the classics"? like who the hell invented the joystick?!?! back in MY day REAL pros used the D-pad ONLY. Or, back to my example, wait what?!?! point and click?!? back in MY day, REAL PROS used command-based interfaces.

The game has changed, and because base management is MEANT to be easier with this interface, you can now entirely focus your skills on macro, micro, scouting, and STRATEGY. don't gimme that BS about "omg but it's RTS" because the Real-Time still has a lot to do with....everything, you might not have to constantly control your workers individually now but you still have to know what to do with your actual combat units. And I think that this is a game about war, not a city simulation where the economy is top priority, shifting the focus to your combat units might not be a bad idea.


So I have a question, whats your average apm and what do you want to raise it to?
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IMO the mineral trick had no place in an RTS. The process of the mineral trick has nothing to do with RTS whatsoever. This is not strategy, it's tedious micro management. Players should not have to do this just to get on equal footing with someone who does it. It's blatant game exploit. It seems Blizzard has a delay in mining for a reason, and they don't want people tampering with that delay to gain an advantage.


Alright so micro management has no place in an RTs right?

Alright, that's a straw man argument. That's not what we're saying.

Micro has a place in RTS, but it has to be useful micro, not tedious micro. Expert muta harass is useful micro and has a place in RTS. Having to manually tell workers to gather resources is tedious micro and should and has been done away with. Basically, if it adds to the strategy of the game, i.e. it actually requires actual thinking, it has a place in RTS. If it is tedious and repetitive, it doesn't.
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I don't even look at it, can you see it on my profile? idk. But either way i doubt that has any relevance now does it?

Acting all veteran-like isn't the best course of action here. Just because a game is real-time it doesn't mean i should strive to be spam clicking every minute of the game. Come to think of it, the pros do that a lot... every high tier replay i watch has them changing their nexus/CC/Hatch rally point like 2 times/sec, as if high APM as some sort of must-have number and spending a few minutes without moving anything would somehow detract from their "pro" status.


So here it comes out, you don't want that mechanic because your measly 40 apm can't handle it and instead of working to improve it you want to build the game around you instead.
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Alright so micro management has no place in an RTs right?

Alright, that's a straw man argument. That's not what we're saying.

Micro has a place in RTS, but it has to be useful micro, not tedious micro. Expert muta harass is useful micro and has a place in RTS. Having to manually tell workers to gather resources is tedious micro and should and has been done away with. Basically, if it adds to the strategy of the game, i.e. it actually requires actual thinking, it has a place in RTS. If it is tedious and repetitive, it doesn't.[/quote]

But there is no expert muta harass in SC2, and microing workers is the same as microing anything else. You are spending energy and attention to get more out of a unit.

Stop pretending there is no place for mechanics in a RTS.
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So I have a question, whats your average apm and what do you want to raise it to?


You just lost a ton of credibility here. The pros are good not because they have high average APM. They have high APM because they're good. APM is the manifestation of remembering to do important things in the game. The reason why pros spam actions during lulls in combat is because it keeps their hands warmed up for when their armies clash and they need sky-high APM.
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Also, low APM means that you have fewer superfluous actions in the game, and that you are mor efficient in managing your army. White-Ra "only" has 100 average APM, and he's pretty good.
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Ladies and gentlemen, the quoted person has officially lost an argument and has resorted to guessing assumptions and attacks.

Have a nice night, I'm off =)


Have fun, I'm glad this casual gaming is to your liking.




You just lost a ton of credibility here. The pros are good not because they have high average APM. They have high APM because they're good. APM is the manifestation of remembering to do important things in the game. The reason why pros spam actions during lulls in combat is because it keeps their hands warmed up for when their armies clash and they need sky-high APM.


Its a closed cycle, having to do more raises your apm, having high apm lets you do more.

Taking things out of the game that require your attention lowers the apm the game needs until your grandma could play it at almost the pro level.

I' am against this, and no this is not a straw man argument. This is what i actually believe your final vision for the game is.
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Glad to see sockfolding gone, it wasn't any fun even though I learned to use it to some proficiency.

Shame to see the ultra bug fixed so soon, I wasn't able to enjoy using it. lol.
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Lets not be silly here. Giving players an advantage because they happen to know how to exploit flaws in game mechanics is not a good thing. There are plenty of good players out there that don't visit the forums on a regular basis and don't know anything about the mineral boosting. It really isn't fair in any way to leave something like this in the game.
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Auw so sad, but yeah this patch was needed. +1
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Lets not be silly here. Giving players an advantage because they happen to know how to exploit flaws in game mechanics is not a good thing. There are plenty of good players out there that don't visit the forums on a regular basis and don't know anything about the mineral boosting. It really isn't fair in any way to leave something like this in the game.


You are probably right, I just wish that players who had sub 40 apm actually not be able to play pretty decently of 3 base late game.

It just doesn't seem right.
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I just discovered why he hasn't flamed me for being a non-diamond scrub yet. I'm actually higher in rating than him, and I play Random. I find this very amusing.
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Its a closed cycle, having to do more raises your apm, having high apm lets you do more.

Taking things out of the game that require your attention lowers the apm the game needs until your grandma could play it at almost the pro level.

I' am against this, and no this is not a straw man argument. This is what i actually believe your final vision for the game is.

Read my post at the top of this page.
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mineral boosting and ultralisks... Happy this got patched quickly... 4real, zerg so OP.
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mineral boosting and ultralisks... Happy this got patched quickly... 4real, zerg so OP.


Most Played Race: Zerg
Edited by Tyler on 9/27/2010 8:19 PM PDT
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