StarCraft® II

Zerg Needs More In HOTS

This is a list (as I'm sure most of you know already) of all the units that attack both ground and air. The problem I see is that Terran and Protoss have so much more control on what they can mass to defend and attack with. While Zerg is very limited.

This list says it all. Give zerg more units to play both rolls. Perferably a T3 unit that can attack both Ground AND AIR. We don't need two T3 units for ground. (Ultralisk and Brood Lords)

Marine
Ghost
Thors
Viking
Battlecruiser
Raven
Widow Mine

Salker
Sentry
Void Ray
Archon
Carrier
Tempest

Hydralisk
Queen
Mutalisk
Infestor
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Zerg's amount of units has to be balanced with the fact that we can switch unit comps ridiculously fast. If we had more units it would be much harder for both Protoss and Terran to deal with the constant switching.

EDIT: Plus we're not suppose to have good all-around units. Our units are meant to be more specialized.
Edited by Rathelm on 1/29/2013 1:19 PM PST
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Hydralisk
Queen
Mutalisk
Infestor

Not to mention that the infestor is gimicky and takes energy, and the queen flat out can't really leave the creep. Mutas are only good when massed and hydras are very fragile.
Edited by Serenity on 1/29/2013 1:22 PM PST
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Zerg's amount of units has to be balanced with the fact that we can switch unit comps ridiculously fast. If we had more units it would be much harder for both Protoss and Terran to deal with the constant switching.

EDIT: Plus we're not suppose to have good all-around units. Our units are meant to be more specialized.


The only thing we specialize in is ground units. And depending on the opponents army we barely do well against it. Marines can own EVERYTHING and they are a T1 unit. Why shouldn't zerg be aloud to have a great overall unit?



Hydralisk
Queen
Mutalisk
Infestor

Not to mention that the infestor is gimicky and takes energy, and the queen flat out can't really leave the creep. Mutas are only good when massed and hydras are very fragile.


I completly agree. And I will always hate the fact that BOTH our T3 units attack ground. What?!?!? :/
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And yet somehow, zergs manage.
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Hydralisk
Queen
Mutalisk
Infestor


The problem is that Hydralisks are expensive garbage. They removed Dark Swarm from the alpha version of the game and gave Protoss two defensive spells because I guess Protoss units needed extra protection even though they have high health and shielding.
The Queen isn't meant for fighting. It's meant for production and can defend against one Banshee.
Mutalisks are a harassment unit and die to Terran's starting unit.
The Infestor has no attack and can only Fungal so many times in one engagement. Fungal also gets nerfed or changed in every patch because of bad design.
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Even worse is when you add in units that only hit air, the corrupter and phoenix even though it can lift ground units to hit, and you highlight the main issue with zerg. At least in SC1 they had the scourge to work with to take down enemy air units, now they barely have anything that can scratch mass air. Even worse is that they don't have reliable splash damage for air while Protoss are getting another one which makes it even less of a good idea to pull mutas which already were horrible due to thors and archon splash+damage bonus. Widow mines are also going to make them something you almost never see, which terran never even needed in the first place.
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The only thing we specialize in is ground units. And depending on the opponents army we barely do well against it. Marines can own EVERYTHING and they are a T1 unit. Why shouldn't zerg be aloud to have a great overall unit?


totally what zerg needs.. having the ability to instant remax and have a marine type unit... you want to just enter the game and it instantly say you win too?
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01/30/2013 01:57 AMPosted by ebisu
totally what zerg needs.. having the ability to instant remax and have a marine type unit... you want to just enter the game and it instantly say you win too?


Where are they getting all of this money to instantly remax?
It was the exact same situation in Brood War because each Hatchery made three units veses one unit per building for Terrana nd Protoss. Zerg had a Marine type unit in Brood War but for some reason Terran and Protoss players cry at the idea of Zerg having good units in Sc2.
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01/30/2013 01:57 AMPosted by ebisu
The only thing we specialize in is ground units. And depending on the opponents army we barely do well against it. Marines can own EVERYTHING and they are a T1 unit. Why shouldn't zerg be aloud to have a great overall unit?


totally what zerg needs.. having the ability to instant remax and have a marine type unit... you want to just enter the game and it instantly say you win too?


So it's Ok for both the other races to do it and not Zerg?? Terran can pop out Marines like there's no tomorrow. Our units are suppose to be "Cost Effective". But lord knows they're NOT. Take our T3 units. Ultralisk cost 300min and 200 gas. Can only attack melee distance and normally get stuck or DIE before they reach anything.

Now lets look at Thors. 300min, 200gas. Can attack BOTH air and ground from a distance.. WTF?!?! How can anyone not see a problem with this besides the people that play that race. And even the Colossus. Although it only attacks ground it can from a long range. Making it VERY valuable and useful.

Zerg is suppose to be "The Swarm". But it feels more like a we are "The Cool Breeze". Our units are the least cost effective. Easiest to counter and the fact that we have some of the crappiest T3 units and counter to air is a Joke. Not a very funny one I might add.
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Zerg is suppose to be "The Swarm". But it feels more like a we are "The Cool Breeze". Our units are the least cost effective. Easiest to counter and the fact that we have some of the crappiest T3 units and counter to air is a Joke. Not a very funny one I might add.


Zerg actually has the smallest army of all three races, but most people don't talk about it. Take into account you need to be a base ahead and you need Queens for each base. You're already cutting deep into the size of your army. Then factor in the supply costs. We have no 1 supply units like we did in Brood War, so everything costs 2 supply or more unless you go pure Zerglings or Banelings. You end up with a smaller army of weaker units.
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The only thing we specialize in is ground units. And depending on the opponents army we barely do well against it. Marines can own EVERYTHING and they are a T1 unit. Why shouldn't zerg be aloud to have a great overall unit?


Because we're not about cost or supply efficiency. You have to work for efficiency by countering what your opponent is building properly. Its a pain, but we have the fastest ramping economy at least.
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It's not faster by much, and that is without counting Terran Mules, when those are added in it is not as fast as you'd think. And because of that lack of efficiency, if your army does too little damage then they can easily rebuild their losses and have the same size force for you to deal with with the still smaller and innefficient army. And due to the high cost and innefficiency you only get 1 maybe 2 army remaxes before you run out of steam.
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Zerg's amount of units has to be balanced with the fact that we can switch unit comps ridiculously fast. If we had more units it would be much harder for both Protoss and Terran to deal with the constant switching.

EDIT: Plus we're not suppose to have good all-around units. Our units are meant to be more specialized.


The only thing we specialize in is ground units. And depending on the opponents army we barely do well against it. Marines can own EVERYTHING and they are a T1 unit. Why shouldn't zerg be aloud to have a great overall unit?



Hydralisk
Queen
Mutalisk
Infestor

Not to mention that the infestor is gimicky and takes energy, and the queen flat out can't really leave the creep. Mutas are only good when massed and hydras are very fragile.


I completly agree. And I will always hate the fact that BOTH our T3 units attack ground. What?!?!? :/
Massed Zerglings are really hard to deal with with infestor play so don't complain. lets see you trying to counter infestor ling play as protoss. Yes ik ik Archon Zealots works well but since Zerg can tech switch really relly fast its hard for us Protoss players to counter everything you throw on the field.
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01/29/2013 05:28 PMPosted by Linkebungu
And yet somehow, zergs manage.


As do all the races. Doesn't mean mean we don't have a much harder time trying to manage.

01/30/2013 12:51 PMPosted by Rathelm
The only thing we specialize in is ground units. And depending on the opponents army we barely do well against it. Marines can own EVERYTHING and they are a T1 unit. Why shouldn't zerg be aloud to have a great overall unit?


Because we're not about cost or supply efficiency. You have to work for efficiency by countering what your opponent is building properly. Its a pain, but we have the fastest ramping economy at least.


We all have to try and counter by scouting properly and building effectively. But scouting for zerg is the worse out of the 3. Sacrifice a Ovie while others can scan over and over again or send in a Observer.

01/30/2013 01:03 PMPosted by Flarenza
It's not faster by much, and that is without counting Terran Mules, when those are added in it is not as fast as you'd think. And because of that lack of efficiency, if your army does too little damage then they can easily rebuild their losses and have the same size force for you to deal with with the still smaller and innefficient army. And due to the high cost and innefficiency you only get 1 maybe 2 army remaxes before you run out of steam.


Well said.
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01/30/2013 08:02 AMPosted by Migrax
totally what zerg needs.. having the ability to instant remax and have a marine type unit... you want to just enter the game and it instantly say you win too?


Where are they getting all of this money to instantly remax?
It was the exact same situation in Brood War because each Hatchery made three units veses one unit per building for Terrana nd Protoss. Zerg had a Marine type unit in Brood War but for some reason Terran and Protoss players cry at the idea of Zerg having good units in Sc2.
The 5 bases zergs are supposed to have late game. Considering ur hatcheries only cost 300 mins you have an option go have wayyy more income than terran/protoss
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01/30/2013 01:40 PMPosted by NaNiwa


Where are they getting all of this money to instantly remax?
It was the exact same situation in Brood War because each Hatchery made three units veses one unit per building for Terrana nd Protoss. Zerg had a Marine type unit in Brood War but for some reason Terran and Protoss players cry at the idea of Zerg having good units in Sc2.
The 5 bases zergs are supposed to have late game. Considering ur hatcheries only cost 300 mins you have an option go have wayyy more income than terran/protoss


And there it goes. I knew it was coming. It's not 300 for a hatchery. It's actually 350. Have to include the drone which is 50 as well. So Toss and Terran pay 50 extra minerals O_o So basically everyone can expo at the same speed.
Edited by Infested on 1/30/2013 2:10 PM PST
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01/30/2013 01:03 PMPosted by Flarenza
It's not faster by much, and that is without counting Terran Mules, when those are added in it is not as fast as you'd think. And because of that lack of efficiency, if your army does too little damage then they can easily rebuild their losses and have the same size force for you to deal with with the still smaller and innefficient army. And due to the high cost and innefficiency you only get 1 maybe 2 army remaxes before you run out of steam.


There's only one point that MULEs are OP and its after 20 minutes. The infrastructure requirements to get Terran going is considerably higher than Zergs. Even 5 barracks on 2 bases is 750 minerals which eats up the first 3 MULEs. I can hit 55 drones much faster than a Terran can hit 55 SCVs and that time gap allows for considerable income. Its easier to take thirds faster and safer.

Yes if you do too little damage you'll lose, but if Terran doesn't contain Zerg and allows the Zerg to have 5 bases worth of gas all the cost efficiency bio affords is then lost. Having played both sides at around the diamond level I think its fairly balanced, but I can completely understand why they both complain. Nothing worse than losing to banelings due to a poor split. However when I lose as Zerg its because I didn't get enough gas to transition to Broodlords or Ultras fast enough.

We all have to try and counter by scouting properly and building effectively. But scouting for zerg is the worse out of the 3. Sacrifice a Ovie while others can scan over and over again or send in a Observer.


You are insane if you think Zerg has the worst scouting. Creep spread is the best scouting tool in the game. Permanent vision as long as the invisible tumors last! Overlords that are relatively cheap and can be upgraded to be relatively fast. A scan is just an opportunity loss for the Terran. Not that big of a deal later in the game, but when scanning is needed (prior to 10 minutes) I'd rather sacrifice an overlord instead of losing a scan. Observers are even worse. They're pretty slow and they tie up the robo. Yes it is cloaked, but its a slow unit that dies when its scouted out. The protoss have to play the most blind out of all the races.

EDIT:

And I completely forgot changelings which cost energy, last a decently long time, and can be tough for your opponent to even realize they are there.
Edited by Rathelm on 1/30/2013 4:06 PM PST
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The 5 bases zergs are supposed to have late game. Considering ur hatcheries only cost 300 mins you have an option go have wayyy more income than terran/protoss


And there it goes. I knew it was coming. It's not 300 for a hatchery. It's actually 350. Have to include the drone which is 50 as well. So Toss and Terran pay 50 extra minerals O_o So basically everyone can expo at the same speed.
You know what Zerg needs a buff with their infestor broodlord or ultras are OP. So does Terran. The only race that needs a advantage is Protoss. In higher leaugues it is never played at all almost due to the fact Protoss has nothing going for them compared to Zerg and Terran.
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Dunno I feel the same way kinda. Been playing the beta a bit and trying to use the new units, but because Terran and Protoss dictate the game almost 100% of the time VS Zerg, Zergs new units are kinda lackluster.

Swarm hosts are bad. Toss gets cols or any air unit and they become completely useless. Terran gets tanks or just masses marines and they can just attack the swarm hosts directly. I don't really understand there role... They are a seige unit that has a LONG delay between attacks. I mean... I had 6-8 of them trying to seige a toss and he just used stalkers to kill them with ease.... I was just like... WoW what a waste. IMO they should spawn a continuous stream of units 1 at a time, not spawn 5-6 at a time. I don't understand WHY this unit is the way it is. It's horrible.

Vipers are not bad units, but I feel they are a waste of supply by the time they come out. With P and T doing the same strats, and having new units to compliment those strats... viper just come way too late. Zerg got nothing it feels.

Bottom line to me, playing Zerg in HOtS feels exactly like Zerg in WoL. P and T got new buffs to their races and the hill just got bigger for Zerg. People saying Zerg have to "Micro" now, but the reality is... Zerg need PERFECT micro, whereas toss and T can micro just enough that they lose NOTHING, whereas Zerg lose everything and there is nothing they can do about it. Most of Zerg units are close range, meaning even mediocre micro from P or T and the Zerg is fed.

I don't like the feel of this Expo for the race I play. P and T are getting buffs to harassment EVERYWHERE. But what does Zerg get? Early burrow. Which is negated by like 99.9% of openers ANYWAYS.
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