Cheesing is a legit way of playing SC

Posts: 42
First off I hate how it's called Cheese/chessing. It just sounds stupid.

I find it's a legit way to play, players who whine, cry, or rant about how they dislike certain styles need to improve. Hate cannon rush, then wall off, scout your base. That alone stops 90% of cheese play. I was stuck on one base by a zerg back when I was in Bronze. Instead of whinning, I watched the replay took the build order (after I realized that it was well put together) and added it to ways I wanted to play.

I've seen very few pro players do "cheese" so if they're fine with it then lower ranked players shouldn't whine. What most don't get is, all innovative builds started off as cheese. So it's best to learn those "cheese" plays so you can beat them and become creative when Hots is realeased.
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Posts: 432
01/29/2013 01:01 PMPosted by CUBE


Pretty much. Last night I had a guy proxy rax/bunker me. After I beat it, he floated off all his buildings and went afk. Definitely trollish.


that is the victory condition problem, it is fine, deal with it with air units


That is not an excuse, it's wasting peoples time, teching to enough air to kill buildings and on some maps is a nightmare, especially if you only stopped the cheese after you being severely injured economically and tech-wise.
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Posts: 432
Cheesing is never a legitimate strat. There's a reason it's called cheesing, it's cheap, meant for easy wins or to just annoy people. Would you like it if some dude cannon rushed you every game, or he proxy 2 raxd you? or proxy 2gate? or 8 poold you?
These are things that catch people off guard, but aren't something that takes skill to do, it's kind of like running around with a Grenade Launcher on MW2, saying you are better than everyone else because they can't handle your skills, and then winning the game because you had an instant kill weapon that shot fast and killed multiple people. Cheese. it's Chessy
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Posts: 1,367
The issue I have with cheesing, is the same issue I have with losing in general.

I do not care when you beat me, GG to you.

I DO however, hate when I beat myself. Which is exactly what 99% of all cheese play is. You are not beating your opponent, you are simply hoping your opponent scouts/reacts poorly, and beats themself by making mistakes.

If you outplay me, good job for you.

If I simply fail to play to my standard level of play, and lose as a result, that is frusterating, which is what most cheese losses come down to. (oops, I misclicked my forcefield by 1 little square... I guess I lose now... or, oops I looked at a probe for 3 seconds, to build a couple extra gateways and I missed the forcefield on your banelings.) Just stupid losses that do not come down to skill vs skill, but rather who is paying attention at the right time, and who scouted exactly what they needed to scout, when they needed to do it.
Edited by Erpman on 1/30/2013 9:16 AM PST
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Posts: 381
Cheesing is never a legitimate strat. There's a reason it's called cheesing, it's cheap, meant for easy wins or to just annoy people. Would you like it if some dude cannon rushed you every game, or he proxy 2 raxd you? or proxy 2gate? or 8 poold you?
These are things that catch people off guard, but aren't something that takes skill to do, it's kind of like running around with a Grenade Launcher on MW2, saying you are better than everyone else because they can't handle your skills, and then winning the game because you had an instant kill weapon that shot fast and killed multiple people. Cheese. it's Chessy


One would think that if you got cannon rushed, etc. every game that you would learn to defend against it....

I don't "Cheese" personally but hey, all is fair in love and war.

I think of it like this; if this was a "real life" war, would an early attack on your unprepared enemy be "Cheese"? No. It would be a life saving battle tactic that saved your country.
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Posts: 1,367
01/30/2013 09:17 AMPosted by Castrobot
I think of it like this; if this was a "real life" war, would an early attack on your unprepared enemy be "Cheese"? No. It would be a life saving battle tactic that saved your country.


In real life, if the lives of thousands were lost, because a military leader decided to just rush a bunch of troops as fast as possible, withought having any contingency plan, that person would probably be hung.

"You thought you could win the war by simply sending 1 aircraft carrier + troops as fast as possible hoping that they wouldn't see it coming? Thousands of lives were lost because you flipped a coin, hoping it would work? All based on the enemy just not seeing it?"

Would never happen in real life, strategy wins out 99% of the time, and when REAL lives are at stake, that is what leaders will choose to use.

--- My argument here is simply against your comparison to "real life war". My post above explains my thoughts on "cheese" play.
Edited by Erpman on 1/30/2013 9:26 AM PST
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Posts: 381
01/30/2013 09:25 AMPosted by Erpman
I think of it like this; if this was a "real life" war, would an early attack on your unprepared enemy be "Cheese"? No. It would be a life saving battle tactic that saved your country.


In real life, if the lives of thousands were lost, because a military leader decided to just rush a bunch of troops as fast as possible, withought having any contingency plan, that person would probably be hung.

"You thought you could win the war by simply sending 1 aircraft carrier + troops as fast as possible hoping that they wouldn't see it coming? Thousands of lives were lost because you flipped a coin, hoping it would work? All based on the enemy just not seeing it?"

Would never happen in real life, strategy wins out 99% of the time, and when REAL lives are at stake, that is what leaders will choose to use.

--- My argument here is simply against your comparison to "real life war". My post above explains my thoughts on "cheese" play.


I think that is a poor analogy...

I was thinking more along the lines of sending in a strike team to take out a coutries leadership... al la inglorious bastards.
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Posts: 1,367


In real life, if the lives of thousands were lost, because a military leader decided to just rush a bunch of troops as fast as possible, withought having any contingency plan, that person would probably be hung.

"You thought you could win the war by simply sending 1 aircraft carrier + troops as fast as possible hoping that they wouldn't see it coming? Thousands of lives were lost because you flipped a coin, hoping it would work? All based on the enemy just not seeing it?"

Would never happen in real life, strategy wins out 99% of the time, and when REAL lives are at stake, that is what leaders will choose to use.

--- My argument here is simply against your comparison to "real life war". My post above explains my thoughts on "cheese" play.


I think that is a poor analogy...

I was thinking more along the lines of sending in a strike team to take out a coutries leadership... al la inglorious bastards.


But that does not compare to "cheese play" in SC2 at all. In SC2, if that attack fails, the war is lost, game over.

A "strike team" sent in to do some damage, would compare much better to "harass" or "early aggression" in SC2, not cheese play where your entire strategy relies on that attack.
Edited by Erpman on 1/30/2013 9:36 AM PST
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Posts: 1,990
Cheese is legit - its part of the game. Losing to it a few times is OK, after that its on you. Cheese can be detected with smiple scouting. If you are not scouting then thats your fault.

Scouting does not always mean you find the building or the worker right away. its looking at the enemy base, looking at the colock, and saying.. its way too late in the game for them to have no buldings at their base... or 'how come there is only a forge and a pylon?'

Its legit and you need to learn how to detect it and deal with it just like 'normal' statagies.
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Posts: 1,990
Cheese is legit - its part of the game. Losing to it a few times is OK, after that its on you. Cheese can be detected with smiple scouting. If you are not scouting then thats your fault.

Scouting does not always mean you find the building or the worker right away. its looking at the enemy base, looking at the colock, and saying.. its way too late in the game for them to have no buldings at their base... or 'how come there is only a forge and a pylon?'

Its legit and you need to learn how to detect it and deal with it just like 'normal' statagies.


Nobody is saying cheese is not a legit win. Thats not what anyone is saying. What we are simply saying is that the person that cheeses every game to win is basically bad and relies on his opponent's making mistakes instead of he himself winning.

Think about it, who would you be more scared to play in a bo21, someone who nonstop cheeses or someone who has solid macro and a mix of playstyles?


My reply was to the OP who concluded that cheese was legit. I was in agreement and saying that cheese is beatable through scouting and experience. I dont care what other people are saying. And yes, the arguement that 'a player that ONLY cheeses is a bad player' is an extreme case of a cheeser and is pretty easy to agree with.
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Posts: 3,713
Both players start the game with 6 workers, and a home base. After that, there is only rush builds, and macro builds. Cheese doesn't exist, and never existed.
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Posts: 4,096
I think the point is that being in the position of defending your base should be WAY more advantageous than it is early in the game. It should be extremely difficult to walk into a players center of operation and get the upper-hand, but as of right now it's the easiest approach in the game.
Edited by Gigan on 1/30/2013 1:06 PM PST
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Posts: 2,107
i heard cheesing is a good coinflip in an ace match in pro leagues/tournaments.

cheese doesn't only exist on ladder. keeps you on your toes. those who complain are noobs really.
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Posts: 1,183
01/29/2013 12:57 PMPosted by DirtyD
I guess in that case, they are not cheesers, they are trolls...


Pretty much. Last night I had a guy proxy rax/bunker me. After I beat it, he floated off all his buildings and went afk. Definitely trollish.


I've done that.. but because he cheesed me hahaha
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