StarCraft® II

Cheesing is a legit way of playing SC

By playing this way you are essentially committed to an eternal role of servitude in which you condition and refine the play of those making efforts to establish a dynamic/expansive strategy.
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Let me sum up in a short way what I personally think and what I got from other people's responses.

Cheese is NOT a legitimate way to play Sc2, it is however a legitimate way to win.


Legitimate? What governing body has decreed that cheese is in any way illegitimate? Clearly Blizzard doesn't think so, as they put it into the game.
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Legitimate? What governing body has decreed that cheese is in any way illegitimate? Clearly Blizzard doesn't think so, as they put it into the game.


what I personally think and what I got from other people's responses.


This is simply the overwhemingly majority of opinion is what im feeling.


Yes, that's your opinion, which you're certainly entitled to. I'm not going to tell you that you personally can't dislike cheese with whatever vitriol you like, but legitimacy is not grounded in opinion.
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01/29/2013 02:10 PMPosted by Jazzman
Of course cheesing is legitimate. The problem for people who play exclusively cheese styles is that they stunt their depth of experience and become inflexible. If I go 4-gate all-in in TvP every game, I become good at executing the basic 4-gate, true, but in game situations where they deflect the 4-gate or blind-counter it, I'm lost. Whereas people who play more macro-oriented or at least 2-base plays have to deal with the rapidly branching strategy trees of the various races, and thus grow more familiar with the intimate details of deflecting a wide variety of stuff from a bunch of game timestamps. It's just better in the long run to play macro, IF you're interested in developing your skills at strategy, problem-solving, and mindgames. If all you're after is the ladder grind for points, then proxy gate away, my friend. :D


I said this once in another thread. The response I got can be summed up as this:

"lol you mad because you can't counter cheese. L2P noob"
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It's completely legit unless you're cheesing me, in which case you are clearly highlighting your lack of skill. :)
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01/30/2013 04:44 PMPosted by Anesthetic
Where did I say anywhere in this thread that I disliked cheese? Heck I use cheese frequently in certain settings.


You've made it pretty clear that you don't find cheese fun in the last thread on this topic. But I'm not arguing whether you like cheese or not, just that the legitimacy of cheesing - or lack thereof - is not something anyone in this thread has the authority to decide.

Also, why play if only to win?
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01/30/2013 09:17 AMPosted by Castrobot
I think of it like this; if this was a "real life" war, would an early attack on your unprepared enemy be "Cheese"? No. It would be a life saving battle tactic that saved your country.


You're right. In real life, if we use our own construction workers, farmers and miners to serve as meatshield for marines when invading, we most certainly would not call it cheese.
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01/29/2013 12:50 PMPosted by Incubus
They don't care about losses as much as regular players do though. So it's a pain in the !@# to play against someone who is just going to try and piss you off with a rush instead of playing past 6 minutes. They deserve every bit of hate they get.


Oh come on

If you die to a rush nowadays, you're just bad or way too greedy. The maps are so huge you have so much time..
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01/29/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Gigan
It's obviously legit. It's just annoying, in low rank play specifically, because it's soooo much easier to pull off than it is to defend. So, by that logic anyone who isn't particularly skilled yet would be stupid not to cheese, and the result is every low rank game ending before either side can even attempt to learn how to macro.

I'm getting used having players get pissed of because I cheese. Probably at least 1/4 or 1/3 of the time I will now get complainers. Last game I ended up going against a protoss player on Ohana LE. I decided since they were Protoss I was going to cannon rush. I get people who won't even try and stop me from cannon rushing. I put 3 pylons on the very edge of their base just above their 2nd set of minerals. I build some photon cannons and eventually end up winning.

This time I had the player call me Noob. He said "Learn to Play." At the end he told me "Moron L2P." I told him "Sorry". I later said "Not my Problem, Ur Prob." This time around I beat a silver ranked player who is top 8 in his division. I seem to get these people more frequently. Don't blame me for ruining your game. You should have seen I was trying to do. If i'm going to place pylons inside your base their must be a reason for that.
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Cheesing is never a legitimate strat. There's a reason it's called cheesing, it's cheap, meant for easy wins or to just annoy people. Would you like it if some dude cannon rushed you every game, or he proxy 2 raxd you? or proxy 2gate? or 8 poold you?
These are things that catch people off guard, but aren't something that takes skill to do, it's kind of like running around with a Grenade Launcher on MW2, saying you are better than everyone else because they can't handle your skills, and then winning the game because you had an instant kill weapon that shot fast and killed multiple people. Cheese. it's Chessy

That's not how I look at it. If I get cheesed I will most likely say GG. I'm not trying to be sarcastic towards the other player. If I were that player I might feel like doing that same exact thing. I have had games where I played Zerg and got 6 pooled. I'm not very good with Zerg so I'm not exactly sure how to handle it. Inside I do feel a stupid for getting cheesed by that Zerg player. I don't say anything mean to the other player. I say GG.
Edited by mastershake on 1/31/2013 5:30 AM PST
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The reason why rage people at cheese is because it takes little to no skill and a newb can beat a pro with it. Ive beaten grandmasters with cheese but it doesnt make me better. The only reason people should cheese is because if they are desperate for points or if they're mindgaming there opponent. Gaulzi beat alot players on a level he didnt even know existed yet his mechanics are low mid master. So to sum it all up, you can beat players far better then you if you use strats that take little to no skill. Just bothers me to see cheesers like FametoFlame getting gm and beating players like stephano by just 6 pooling and pulling all there drones.
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Raging about cheese, a comments about honor, lack of skill.... remind me of the scrubs Sirlin talks about in Playing to win. Remember some of us play in online tournaments for "fun" but when you get in a Bo 3, it is nice to throw some early aggression in the mix to throw your opponent off. You're not there to be honorable or prove you are better at late game, you are there to win. So the next time you see cheese from a terran on the ladder, it might be me trying to perfect an aspect of the game.
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One time someone asked me if I was doing FFE.

I proxied two gateways, and then typed "no" as my zealots were killing him. What I usually do is some kind of safe macro play, except I try to attack or harass with whatever units I have instead of just sitting around. Sometimes that goes poorly.
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I have a secondary account that is just for cheese. I got from bottom bronze to rank 1 plat just 6 pooling. I 6 pooled every matchup, regardless of race and map. I did some smaller things like worker stacking and micro'ing decently well, but still I enjoyed it. :D
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If people can't take cheese, they shouldn't play competitively. Cheese works because it gives a lot of bang for its buck if it's successful. It's basically a coinflip, though -- if it's stopped, you're pretty much dead. I'd say that's a fair risk. If you cheese all the time then you won't learn certain aspects of the game, but if you throw in the occasional cheese here and there I don't see a problem with it.
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