Bringing the Ghosts back

Posts: 87
Yo guys,

I haven't played in about a year but am thinking of restarting as terran. Got to diamond as P and plat as Z when I was last active and want to try out T. Only thing is, it seems that terran is now the weakest and least used race cuz of late game zerg unit combos.

Hence, would it not pay to return the ghost snipe ability back to 45 damage? This would enable it to be used against broods and infestors once again. Then again, Ive barely played as terran as don't know too much about how they work and this idea could simply be swept aside.

Thoughts?

P.S. would you guys recommend trying out terran or choose either z/p since Ive already had some experience with them?
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Posts: 8,360
01/29/2013 02:56 AMPosted by Sovereign
Hence, would it not pay to return the ghost snipe ability back to 45 damage? This would enable it to be used against broods and infestors once again


Snipe was way too powerful vs everything zerg had in the lategame. It needed to be nerfed just not as much as it was.
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Posts: 7
Just like how broodlord infestor is strong against everything terran has late game. But blizzard aren't nerfing either because everyone plays zerg.

It took 1 game for blizzard to nerf ghosts. Where MVP wrecked I think it was Nestea? Anyway, after about 7 months after the random queen buff, they still are "waiting to see what happens" have throwing some crappy infested terran nerf (which is pretty much a non issue, the nerf is barely felt) to appease the crowd.
Edited by OmenGuide on 1/29/2013 5:34 AM PST
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Posts: 8,360
01/29/2013 05:32 AMPosted by OmenGuide
It took 1 game for blizzard to nerf ghosts.


This isn't even remotely true.

01/29/2013 05:32 AMPosted by OmenGuide
Where MVP wrecked I think it was Nestea?


Please don't make things up to support your argument.
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Posts: 198
01/29/2013 05:32 AMPosted by OmenGuide
have throwing some crappy infested terran nerf


Are you kidding? No upgrades on Infested T's has made a world of difference.
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Posts: 12,759
Snipe needs to be different, or replaced. That is the issue with it.
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Posts: 370
I exclusively practice bio in TvZ and find that with 6 ghosts emping the infestors bio can trade super efficiently and tire down zerg.
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01/29/2013 11:31 AMPosted by ICEdKing
I exclusively practice bio in TvZ and find that with 6 ghosts emping the infestors bio can trade super efficiently and tire down zerg.


Terran has to trade more efficiently than Zerg otherwise Terran will lose.
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Posts: 87

Where MVP wrecked I think it was Nestea?


Please don't make things up to support your argument.


Actually I remember watching that game. omenguide wasn't lying
Edited by Sovereign on 1/29/2013 12:35 PM PST
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Posts: 370
01/29/2013 12:35 PMPosted by Sovereign
Actually I remember watching that game. omenguide wasn't lying


Blizzcon 2011 finals game 7 MVP vs Nestea 50+min game

The nerf did not come from that game specifically but was due to the fact snipe was too powerful for its original intent. Ghost was meant to be an anti-castor and snipe was designed to defeat templar and infestor. 45 raw damage made it so 5 snipes cut down 1 BL and 12 takes down 1 Ultralisk. This was too energy efficient for an anti-castor spell.
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Posts: 87
Would it be best to try it at like 35 damage? Would then take 7 snipes to kill a single BL. And seeing as the zerg would have many could be worth trialling
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Posts: 370
01/29/2013 12:48 PMPosted by Sovereign
Would it be best to try it at like 35 damage? Would then take 7 snipes to kill a single BL. And seeing as the zerg would have many could be worth trialling


If zerg is pushing 10+ BL at your base then you have let him macro way too hard. It is not about the damage of snipe but the simple fact that snipe is ANTI-CASTOR. And currently 2 snipes kill HT and Infestor so it is fine.

Terran mid-game compositions still do well in late-game when micro'd correctly. I'm not saying you need to have gosu-GM level micro but just know when to pick a fight and where to fight. Bio composition is one of the best in terms of dps. It is also extremely fragile which is why blizzard tried to buff bio-late game to give it more durability.

So I guess my point is to understand what compositions counter the enemy's composition, what composition works on diff maps, and how to exploit the strength of certain composition whether it be the speed and mobility of bio or the raw power of mech.

Dont count on blizzard to give terran a single unit counter to all tier 3 units from either zerg or protoss. Thats not how balance in an RTS works.
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Posts: 12,759
Would it be best to try it at like 35 damage? Would then take 7 snipes to kill a single BL. And seeing as the zerg would have many could be worth trialling


If zerg is pushing 10+ BL at your base then you have let him macro way too hard. It is not about the damage of snipe but the simple fact that snipe is ANTI-CASTOR. And currently 2 snipes kill HT and Infestor so it is fine.

Terran mid-game compositions still do well in late-game when micro'd correctly. I'm not saying you need to have gosu-GM level micro but just know when to pick a fight and where to fight. Bio composition is one of the best in terms of dps. It is also extremely fragile which is why blizzard tried to buff bio-late game to give it more durability.

So I guess my point is to understand what compositions counter the enemy's composition, what composition works on diff maps, and how to exploit the strength of certain composition whether it be the speed and mobility of bio or the raw power of mech.

Dont count on blizzard to give terran a single unit counter to all tier 3 units from either zerg or protoss. Thats not how balance in an RTS works.


Everything you have said is correct, but the issue that many players see with snipe is that EMP is already anti-caster. This makes the Ghost's abilities very redundant in a way that other casters are not.

Snipe needs some kind of change. Snipe shouldn't go back to the way it was, but it needs to be specialized for something different.
Edited by TerranicII on 1/29/2013 3:11 PM PST
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Posts: 63
01/29/2013 05:54 AMPosted by TechNo
It took 1 game for blizzard to nerf ghosts.


This isn't even remotely true.

Where MVP wrecked I think it was Nestea?


Please don't make things up to support your argument.


For the record I watched that game a while back back in 2011 and i cant remember who played it but the terran actually lost that series but he could compete with the late game Zerg army because of ghost snipe. I actually think it was MVP or demuslim. which i guess blizzard felt was op that terrans can actually compete late game.

I have watched terran nerf after nerf after nerf. And admittedly terran was OP in the beat and first year of SC2. I would say terran would be balanced if the snipe nerf was undone unless blizzard reworks our late game transition because no one goes sky terran and thus you have to mass star ports and a fusion core to get BCs. which is inconvenient to say the least. combined with the fact that though terrans get mules, we can instantly switch tech like the zerg can or warp in units right where we need them like the protoss can. and thus if our army looses the fight. thats it GG for most terrans.

The zerg queen buff is what changed everything even if that was undone at least terrans can poke again since right now we can hardly even do that. some fun facts, the last GSL and ironsquid tournament the winners were both zerg. Also with the last GSL not one Korean terran made it, except a couple exempt from the qualifiers like bomber and MVP. Iron squid semi finals, 1 terran and 3 zerg.
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Posts: 370
For the record I watched that game a while back back in 2011 and i cant remember who played it but the terran actually lost that series but he could compete with the late game Zerg army because of ghost snipe. I actually think it was MVP or demuslim. which i guess blizzard felt was op that terrans can actually compete late game.

I have watched terran nerf after nerf after nerf. And admittedly terran was OP in the beat and first year of SC2. I would say terran would be balanced if the snipe nerf was undone unless blizzard reworks our late game transition because no one goes sky terran and thus you have to mass star ports and a fusion core to get BCs. which is inconvenient to say the least. combined with the fact that though terrans get mules, we can instantly switch tech like the zerg can or warp in units right where we need them like the protoss can. and thus if our army looses the fight. thats it GG for most terrans.

The zerg queen buff is what changed everything even if that was undone at least terrans can poke again since right now we can hardly even do that. some fun facts, the last GSL and ironsquid tournament the winners were both zerg. Also with the last GSL not one Korean terran made it, except a couple exempt from the qualifiers like bomber and MVP. Iron squid semi finals, 1 terran and 3 zerg.



You should check your statements. You are asking for one terran unit and one 25 energy spell to completely shutdown and destroy both paths of Zerg's tier 3 units as well as its tier 2 support caster.

Snipe is already amazing against infestors since unlike HTs, infestors have a harder time fighting back without an anti-castor spell. Ultras and BL are 2 very different units that require different support and are essentially different tech paths. Having a 25 energy spell that shut down both means zerg should basically not waste resources on tier 3.

With snipe being the way it was, you essentially trade 5 snipes against 1 BL. Thats 125 energy for a unit that cumulatively cost 350 min and 250 gas. Hardly an even exchange.
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Posts: 10,674
01/29/2013 05:54 AMPosted by TechNo
It took 1 game for blizzard to nerf ghosts.


This isn't even remotely true.

Where MVP wrecked I think it was Nestea?


Please don't make things up to support your argument.


Snipe may have needed a slight nerf. but it really was that one game that got it nerfed :/
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Posts: 2,461
I hate when people say to use ghosts tvz its about the same as making broodlords only able to hit tanks and it be the only counter to 35 tanks but then the broods are completely useless vs everything else would you really ever want to make them .
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Posts: 8,360


This isn't even remotely true.

Please don't make things up to support your argument.


Snipe may have needed a slight nerf. but it really was that one game that got it nerfed :/


Hmm a lot of people seem to think it was a kneejerk change too.

I am probably wrong then, I apologize in that case, for some reason I remember snipe being heavily used late game for a decent amount of time before getting nerfed. I know blizz did a lot of knee jerk changes like blue flame, or even the highly controversial blue flame research icon change, but I didn't think snipe happened overly fast. My bad!
Edited by TechNo on 1/30/2013 6:14 PM PST
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