StarCraft® II

Changes to Bonus Pool with 2.0.4

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Posts: 209
02/17/2013 02:27 PMPosted by HeReTiC
the main difference is that you also get bonus poll now when you lose games on the ladder

Does this mean that it's possible to gain points or break even when you lose? To what extent will you gain points after losing?


I believe it means you will break even on a loss as long as you have an amount of bonus pool equal to the points you would have lost. So if you lose, -12 is taken from your bonus pool instead of the ladder points.
Edited by Replicant on 2/17/2013 3:57 PM PST
Posts: 593
02/17/2013 02:21 PMPosted by Cloaken
It's really no different from the current system. It just makes every ladder win worth 33% more points than it was before, assuming that you don't play more than your bonus pool. Sure, you spend those points twice as fast, but you also accumulate them twice as fast, negating any effect that that would have on binge vs daily play.


Actually, this is not the way it works as there are some subtleties we did not mention previously. Let me clarify:

Under this new system you will not receive double the bonus pool for a win on the ladder; when you win you will still receive the same amount. However, the main difference is that you also get bonus poll now when you lose games on the ladder. This doubles the spending rate as well.

The change doesn't make wins worth 33% more than before, but rather makes losses a bit less painful than before.

Hope that helps to clarify a bit.

I definitely like the sounds of this. Ladder is generally meant to be both competitive and to pair you with people around your skill level. Although you shouldn't be aiming to gain rank for the sake of rank (rather for the skill associated with the rank), it's definitely better if losing doesn't make you feel as bad about yourself.
Posts: 1,779
02/17/2013 03:35 PMPosted by LightCloud
Basically, when you lose, instead of deducting, say, 10 points from your points, it instead deducts 10 points from your bonus pool.


you also get bonus poll now when you lose games on the ladder


HOW WILL YOU LOSE POINTS!!!

Im obviously reading this wrong but could someone clarify for me?
Posts: 3,112
02/17/2013 06:35 PMPosted by Bojinkins
Basically, when you lose, instead of deducting, say, 10 points from your points, it instead deducts 10 points from your bonus pool.


you also get bonus poll now when you lose games on the ladder


HOW WILL YOU LOSE POINTS!!!

Im obviously reading this wrong but could someone clarify for me?


bonus pool isnt infinite. If you have 0 bonus and you lose, that goes to your main points.

Essentially the system does not change, but now you can spend the bonus pool even while losing.
Posts: 1,972
However, the main difference is that you also get bonus poll now when you lose games on the ladder.


What do you mean, "you get bonus pool when you lose games on the ladder"? +points in the sense that your lost points come out of bonus pool, not your ladder points?

If that isn't right, could you make it so this simpleton can understand? Thanks ~
Posts: 154
Example:

Current system:

Assume an even match, with +10/-10 points on the line:

Bonus pool: 100
Current rating: 500

If you win, you earn 10 points (+10 bonus pool):

Bonus pool: 90
Current rating: 520

If you lose, you lose 10 points:

Bonus pool: 100
Current rating: 490

The new system doesn't change for the win case, but now, if you lose:

Bonus pool: 90
Current rating: 500

So your rating cannot decrease until the bonus pool is exhausted.

The net effect is that your bonus pool is diminished each game (regardless of the game's outcome), whereas the previous system only deducted bonus pool for wins. This is why the bonus pool is being exhausted twice as fast.

(Note that none of this actually affects match-making)
Edited by LightCloud on 2/17/2013 9:58 PM PST
MVP - StarCraft
Posts: 2,216
02/17/2013 02:21 PMPosted by Cloaken
It's really no different from the current system. It just makes every ladder win worth 33% more points than it was before, assuming that you don't play more than your bonus pool. Sure, you spend those points twice as fast, but you also accumulate them twice as fast, negating any effect that that would have on binge vs daily play.


Actually, this is not the way it works as there are some subtleties we did not mention previously. Let me clarify:

Under this new system you will not receive double the bonus pool for a win on the ladder; when you win you will still receive the same amount. However, the main difference is that you also get bonus poll now when you lose games on the ladder. This doubles the spending rate as well.

The change doesn't make wins worth 33% more than before, but rather makes losses a bit less painful than before.

Hope that helps to clarify a bit.


I think some further clarification may be warranted as this explanation was a little confusing =)

The bonus pool accrual rate: will it change, or will it continue to be 90 and 52.2 per week? My guess is it will.

Will the bonus pool decrease by an amount equal to the number of points at stake for a win and a loss? I presume so.
Posts: 747
OH COME ON!!!!!!!!!!!! Blizzard, when will you look after the serious player, didn't you learn anything from WoL, casual players only play the first few months, first year at most, then they are gone for good leaving all the people you keep ignoring, the serious fans, players etc. We dont need more dumbing down, give us a real ranking system, real mmr, if you make our losses less painful, it makes them meaningless, and by extension our wins are meaningless too, let our wins feel meaningful!!!!
Posts: 405
Well, hey, if you want losses to be more painful, howsabout they just take away all your points when you lose? Now it's really meaningful!!!! Yeah...
Edited by Mongoose on 2/18/2013 7:08 AM PST
Posts: 1,779
02/17/2013 06:40 PMPosted by Zephirdd




HOW WILL YOU LOSE POINTS!!!

Im obviously reading this wrong but could someone clarify for me?


bonus pool isnt infinite. If you have 0 bonus and you lose, that goes to your main points.

Essentially the system does not change, but now you can spend the bonus pool even while losing.

I know this, but if you gain bonus pool when you lose and also lose bonus pool when you lose, then wouldn't it cancel out, meaning that noting happens?

Once again Im probably reading this wrong.
Posts: 1,304
bonus pool isnt infinite. If you have 0 bonus and you lose, that goes to your main points.

Essentially the system does not change, but now you can spend the bonus pool even while losing.

I know this, but if you gain bonus pool when you lose and also lose bonus pool when you lose, then wouldn't it cancel out, meaning that noting happens?

Once again Im probably reading this wrong.

You don't gain bonus pool when you lose. You spend your bonus pool when you lose, the same way you spend your bonus pool when you win. Your bonus pool will continue to grow at a set rate over time independent of how much or how little you play.

02/16/2013 02:32 PMPosted by Locke
If I understand the favored system correctly (and I'm not 100% certain I do), it tries to keep your point value at something that matches your mmr. So, say you're a 500 point platinum, if you had no bonus pool and kept playing without your mmr changing, you would stay at 500 point platinum. But the bonus pool overrides that by adding more points when you win, without changing the points when you lose. Thus, maybe you equilibriate at 700 point platinum or something. But if you keep playing after running through the bonus pool, you might come down to your skill level, at 500 points again.

My guess is that the system considers the effect of the bonus pool when comparing your points to your MMR. Since the bonus pool grows at a fixed rate that's the same for everyone (based on league), the match making system should be able to easily look at your remaining bonus pool to figure out how much of your points have come from your bonus pool.

In other words, instead of making the target "total points = MMR", the target could be "total points = MMR + spent bonus". In the latter case, the system would expect your total points to gradually rise over the course of the season even if your MMR remains unchanged.
Edited by MVDuneCats on 2/18/2013 8:54 AM PST
Posts: 698
Hey, if a professional hockey team can get a point for losing a game in overtime, i can get some points for losing a game in SCII.
Posts: 3,201
02/17/2013 02:21 PMPosted by Cloaken
It's really no different from the current system. It just makes every ladder win worth 33% more points than it was before, assuming that you don't play more than your bonus pool. Sure, you spend those points twice as fast, but you also accumulate them twice as fast, negating any effect that that would have on binge vs daily play.


Actually, this is not the way it works as there are some subtleties we did not mention previously. Let me clarify:

Under this new system you will not receive double the bonus pool for a win on the ladder; when you win you will still receive the same amount. However, the main difference is that you also get bonus poll now when you lose games on the ladder. This doubles the spending rate as well.

The change doesn't make wins worth 33% more than before, but rather makes losses a bit less painful than before.

Hope that helps to clarify a bit.


Bonus poll.
Posts: 1,736
What's the point? It shouldn't change the rankings at all and you can't go negative? Were there not enough points in the system?
Posts: 56
02/19/2013 10:04 AMPosted by Rathelm
What's the point? It shouldn't change the rankings at all and you can't go negative? Were there not enough points in the system?


Its not about there not being enough point. Blizz is trying to take a bit of the sting out of loosing. Everyone hates loosing a match and if you know that your ALSO loosing loosing ladder points then it discourages you getting back on and playing again. But if you have bonus pool and your risking that instead of the points you already earned it makes it less stressful.

This system is great, I love how it works in HotS because you need to find a balance, Blizz wants to encourage ladder play but not give players a blank check. If you never lost points people would play an unlimited amount of games and rank up with terrible win/loss records. This way you get to play without fear of loosing your points until your bonus runs out. Once you run out of bonus then your risking your ladder points.

Great job Blizzard!
Edited by KobayshiMaru on 2/19/2013 10:35 AM PST
Posts: 3
good job, this should keep people interested in playing and less intimidating for those that get ladder anxiety as well as new comers
Posts: 17
02/17/2013 02:21 PMPosted by Cloaken
It's really no different from the current system. It just makes every ladder win worth 33% more points than it was before, assuming that you don't play more than your bonus pool. Sure, you spend those points twice as fast, but you also accumulate them twice as fast, negating any effect that that would have on binge vs daily play.


Actually, this is not the way it works as there are some subtleties we did not mention previously. Let me clarify:

Under this new system you will not receive double the bonus pool for a win on the ladder; when you win you will still receive the same amount. However, the main difference is that you also get bonus poll now when you lose games on the ladder. This doubles the spending rate as well.

The change doesn't make wins worth 33% more than before, but rather makes losses a bit less painful than before.

Hope that helps to clarify a bit.


But what about the people like me who only win and never lose, Cloaken? This will nerf the rate at which we expend our bonus pools compared to casual plebeians (the 99% percent who maintain 50% rates).

The 1 percent will not stand idly by while our bonus yields and returns are Socialized and redistributed to commoners. We want our superior bonus pool clearing rates back, Blizzard!

Do you really mean to say that you're intending to use your bail out funds to forgive the bonus pool debts of the majority? Even Obama wasn't bold enough to pull something like that -- and we all know Obama is a communist.

What does that make Blizzard Entertainment, then, Cloaken? You can't explain that.

TIL
I will clear bonus pools at the same rate as the 99 percent. Not OK, Blizzard.
Edited by lalush on 2/19/2013 12:03 PM PST
Posts: 128
The '?' tooltip next to the Bonus Pool in game says "If you lose, points are deducted from your bonus pool rather than your ladder" hence the doubled expenditure rate.
Posts: 11
Wow, a Grandmaster... *bows*

Anyway, a little more explanation here guys, if someone knows?
I was 1v1 Rank #1 Silver League with 626 points and a 20 point Bonus Pool.
I won a game, got +40 points for it, and got promoted to Rank #8 Gold League.
BUT, my ladder points were brought down to 468 and somehow I get a -12 Bonus Pool?
There must be an equation or explanation for this, I just can't see it myself.
As far as I remember, before the patch - I've always kept the same ladder points when promoted (1v1 and 2v2 matches)
I then played and lost to a fellow Top 8 Gold Terran, and now my bonus pool is -17.
I read how losses now take from the bonus pool, but a NEGATIVE Bonus Pool?!?
Can anybody help shed some light?
I'm just clicking along here...

*edit*
After winning and losing a few matches, my ladder points are directly affected.
I suppose the negative bonus pool is telling me to chill on the binge playing a lil bit?
Until it builds up again?
It's at -14 after about half the day.

... a week later ...
all good
Edited by KING on 2/26/2013 1:46 PM PST
Posts: 437
though my biggest question is since 2.04 my bonus pool doesnt align with the ingame and site...

currently as of writing this my bonus pool is 94 according to this site with my ladder, how ever in game is at 13...

What is affecting this? and which is technically correct? im assuming the game client however it bothers me if i hit 180 on the site i get demoted =/
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