StarCraft® II

We need answers, and we need them now.

Posts: 85
When the publishing system first came out, we mapmakers were all very excited. Popularity sorting was awful (games/hour, not even games/day... speaking of which, you might want to fix that label) and that list was a mess, but hey, that was clearly a placeholder put there to make things work and we just had a lot of fun creating maps anyway so it was okay.

Then beta phase 2 came, and people started complaining it was basically impossible testing maps online. That wasn't completely true, in fact most mapmakers already knew about the 5-minutes-cooldown and the first pages were macro-spammed by terrible maps that nobody really played during the day. People kept caps yelling on the forums that it was a BETA, we weren't paying customers, and you were obviously going to fix this for release given enough time. That sounded perfectly acceptable.

Release day. Most maps weren't even there because we couldn't cross-publish anymore, but SC2 was such a good game that we were busy for the moment anyway. I still remember a few blue posts suggesting that "good maps will get to the top eventually, don't whine" (yes, that tone) and that we had to "use SC2Mapster or tell Husky to review them" (...I mean, really?) to promote our maps, but I will not take that seriously here.

Featured Maps. Now, I was extremely happy when you decided to feature my WGX Nagrand on the EU server on week 1, it finally had enough visibility, people loved it and I could test changes live with full 10-players lobbies... just... wow! Then 7 days later the dream cracked, it came out of the Featured status with about 1000 games/day (please note: it was a 10 players 20 minutes map back then, which would mean 7000-8000 in Battlecraft numbers). That was obviously not enough for Page 1, and since we all know people DON'T like to click on Show More, I don't really need to tell you how the map managed to get to 500 then 250 (Page 3) then die within 24 hours. Okay, np -- Featured Maps were a clear sign you cared and tried to do something about it, I liked that and defended the idea on the EU forums for weeks.

Patch 1.1 announcement, with "custom games and editor improvements!". Yes it was just about the editor, still I appreciated how you fixed the .sc2bank size bug which was a huge issue for complex maps like mine. I was worried about your "mid-long term plans for custom games" though... if "Soon" is a few months, what the hell is "mid-long term"? I trusted once again you would do the right thing in a matter of weeks.

Patch 1.2 is now on the way before the end of the year, and this will appearently (your words) be your "e-sports patch". No mention about custom games at all, and you still pick easy editor questions weekly instead of giving us something about the horrible status of custom games. I know you are busy and all, and that's why I'm asking very politely, do you even realize HOW broken the system is for those who bought SC2 mostly for them?

After 5 months, I really think we need to talk here.

Yesterday, WGX Nagrand was on mid page 3. You decided to reset popularity when you picked the new Featured maps (or you needed to, I can understand that), and half of the maps were swallowed again in the black hole of popularity. Now it's impossible to make them visible again starting from page X, bots already took over Page 2 and 3 (unless you really think someone actually plays Page 3 maps overnight)

I honestly had a lot of fun so far, and I thank you for this wonderful game, but that's it for me.
I'm not updating my map until the the situation gets better, and I know a LOT (please read: a LOT) of authors who did or are doing the same. You are killing SC2 mapmaking. This sorting system is bad, flawed, designed by someone who clearly doesn't understand how custom games worked on Wc3 (I 100% agree regrouping map is necessary, but popularity sorting doesn't even take into consideration the real number of players enjoying the map, what happened to the cool system shown at Blizzcon?) and apart from telling "yes it can be improved" we are still left in the dark without any ETA or anything.

Side note: I don't think rating systems or thumbs up / down votes people are suggesting will be a viable solution... if 80% of Battle.net really likes to play Nexus Wars clones or turret defenses, what vote do you guys think other maps will get? Exactly. Imho, we need to be able to FILTER OUT altogether games we don't like from the list in the first place.

If anyone agrees, please thumb up the thread and bump it.
Thanks for reading, I don't have any TL;DR version for you sorry :)
Edited by Whiskee on 10/6/2010 12:46 PM PDT
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Posts: 130
Like they say in France, "Got'cho Money!"
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Posts: 27
Very well put. 100% agree. Blizzard?
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Posts: 23
Word to your mother, blizzard.
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Posts: 102
I completly agree with everything you said. At least 50% of the maps played overnight were using bots.

A system should be able to survive by itself. Reseting popularity is like reseting player's scores. It's reseting the scores of the map makers. Would you play World of Warcraft if Blizzard resets your hero's level every week? So, don't expect map makers to keep making maps.
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Posts: 1,784
remember the sorting thats done in the editor?
how you type in a search name,and only units/unit propertys that match are shown?
like you fogot whewe you put unit x,but remembered its name?
type it in AND WOLLA,there it is.
THATS how this map systom should be.'nuff said.
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Posts: 85
We don't want the Starcraft 1 where we had fifty of the same game and the new system allows popular games to come out on top. Most people who want to play a specific game will do so. I don't think right now is the best but there is no other way to do it that I can see of.


No, it doesn't.
With the current system a 4-players 5-minutes map has 15 times the popularity a 10-players 30-minutes map would have, so that isn't even close to real map popularity.

Also, non-boosted Page 3 maps don't have any chance to be actually played 300 times a day, which is the requirement to stay there... very few people scroll that far on the list, and since those maps often take too much to start so many of them leave the lobby after a few minutes.

Regrouping maps is reasonable, popularity sorting is not.
If we could permanently filter out maps we don't like (move them to another tab) that would help.
People would click their "Page 1" maps way more often, regardless of their real position.
Edited by Whiskee on 10/6/2010 12:55 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,350

With the current system a 4-players 5-minutes map has 15 times the popularity a 10-players 30-minutes map would have, so that isn't even close to real map popularity.


That's so like my graph. =]
http://forums.sc2mapster.com/general/general-chat/10446-graph-battle-net-popularity/
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Posts: 85
Little bump.
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Posts: 415
Completely agreed with this and bumped.
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Posts: 130
I say someone makes a map for 1 player, makes the player waste time for exactly 5 real time minutes, and then says " HAHAHA THANK YOU FOR THE +1 POPULARITY" and then kicks the player.

We can name this map "Proof This System Sucks" and watch it skyrocket to the top of the charts in hours.
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Posts: 194
Yeah seriously, my map topped out at 750 games, dropped to 150 in 2 days, and was happy on the 3rd/4th page, now after the reset it's down to 5. I'm in the black hole again it was already hard enough to get it out and now after a major update I just did to the map NO ONE WILL NOTICE IT. Shadow Assault is doomed unless A. a miracle happens where everyone takes sudden interest or B. I boost the map up artificially.

This is some bull!@!@ Blizzard.

OP, I agree 100%, thumbs up, like, etc.
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Posts: 1,350
I say someone makes a map for 1 player, makes the player waste time for exactly 5 real time minutes, and then says " HAHAHA THANK YOU FOR THE +1 POPULARITY" and then kicks the player.

We can name this map "Proof This System Sucks" and watch it skyrocket to the top of the charts in hours.


I can add the Nexus Word Wars Ranking inside it, so people can see who gave more popularity.
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Posts: 1,350
Yeah seriously, my map topped out at 750 games, dropped to 150 in 2 days, and was happy on the 3rd/4th page, now after the reset it's down to 5. I'm in the black hole again it was already hard enough to get it out and now after a major update I just did to the map NO ONE WILL NOTICE IT. Shadow Assault is doomed unless A. a miracle happens where everyone takes sudden interest or B. I boost the map up artificially.

This is some bull!@!@ Blizzard.

OP, I agree 100%, thumbs up, like, etc.


I felt this twice my friend. I felt this with Platform Defense, and with Debates. If I feel this with Nexus Word Wars, you can bet I won't be making maps anymore.
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Posts: 5,624
I gave up on making map with more than 4player(used to only make 8 player one); specially with the damn reset every now and then.
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Posts: 85
Side note: I don't think rating systems or thumbs up / down votes people are suggesting will be a viable solution... if 80% of Battle.net really likes to play Nexus Wars clones or turret defenses, what vote do you guys think other maps will get? Exactly. Imho, we need to be able to FILTER OUT altogether games we don't like from the list in the first place.


This, and searching for a particular map. I mean, after resets, it's nearly impossible to get people into a game since every map is in the black hole, unless you happen to have a bunch of friends to invite in.
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Posts: 1,979
It's my map system, and I need it now!

...


I'm sorry, but the J G Wentworth commercial is all that comes to mind with your title. Well said though.
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Posts: 729
I'm an e-sports player, but this is a well put thread with a valid point. Liked.
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