SC Expanded

Posts: 690
Hi folks. The SC Expanded mod had its own thread a long time ago so now its in the miscellaneous forum I guess, so let me start a new thread about it.

SC Expanded is a melee mod avaiable on NA, EU and SEA. It adds a whole lot of new units, abilities, upgrades, and with these new strategies. But all that isn't avaiable for everyone. Players need to make choices about which units and upgrades they are going to use in that match, and they can also affiliate to a faction, brood, or tribe, each one with unique additions to the game.

Of course HoTS will add a lot to this mod but let me list some of the things you can find right now.

- 4 terran unit decisions to make
- 4 terran upgrade/ability decisions to make
- 10 Terran factions
- 2 Zerg unit decisions to make
- 3 Zerg upgrade/ability decisions
- 9 Zerg broods
- 4 protoss unit decisions to make
- 4 protoss upgrade decision to make
- 7 Protoss tribes

Some of the Terran units included: Civilians, APCs, ARES, Blimps, Diamondbacks, Drop-Pods, Firebats, Goliaths, Hercules, Laserdrill Tanks, Medics, Miners, Nomads, Science Vessels, Scientists, Spec-Ops Dropships, Spectres, Tauren Marines, Vigilants, Vultures, Wraiths. All the mercenary units, including L2D mercenaries.

Some of the Zerg units included: L2D Chokers, Defilers, Feederlings, Guardians, L2D Hunterlings, Hybrids, L2D Kaboomers, Leviathan, Lurkers, Raptors, Scourges, L2D Spotters and Stanks. "Special strain" units, that are stronger versions of normal units, just like mercenaries for Terran.

Some of the Protoss units included: Arbiters, Corsairs, Dark Archons, Dark Heralds, Dragoons, Hybrid Destroyers, Nullifiers, Preservers, Reavers, Scouts, Stone Zealots.

Here is the link for the discussion thread on SC2Mapster:

There is a SC Expanded group on NA, so players can find each other. There may be maps that use outdated versions of this mod, so be sure to try the ones published by me (SoulFilcher).

Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoy the game.
Edited by SoulFilcher on 3/12/2013 7:35 PM PDT
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Posts: 821
I'd -love- to see some of the HotS stuff thrown into the mod. However, be warned it takes a lot of work to get it all to work right...
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Posts: 690
They will. I'm planning ahead so by thw time I start working on it their place in the current tech trees will be more or less final.

The zerg broods will go through a major rework to reflect recent information brought by HoTS, so it may take a while.
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Posts: 821
Awesome! That's good to know you'll incorporate things from it. Be warned though that campaign data will override A LOT of the multiplayer components. My Zerg on my map have to be completely changed back to much of the multiplayer settings.
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Posts: 703
Just wanted to say, I love the mod, and it's everything I always wanted for SC2.

Any idea if there's plans to add primal zerg as a brood option? Ever since I saw them in the campaign, I fell in love with them and want to use them in skirmish and mp so much!
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Posts: 690
@ Dreadnaught: Thanks for the tip.

@SteelFaith: Yes, Primals are planned as a new brood once HoTS is added to this mod. Although the exact changes for this brood are still undecided. It will have at least one primal hero unit, that is the only information I can give you right now.
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Posts: 703
That's really great news!

How about adding new upgrades, not necessarily linked to the Brood you choose. For instance, after using raptors and banelings, I can't imagine not having them as options to use now in a skirmish game. I hope we will see the zerg upgrade/evolution choices from the campaign. For example, I'd love to have the ability of swarmlings combined with primal zerglings; or swarmhosts that can hatch flying locusts.

Anyhow, I'm really excited for the new HOTS SC Expanded mod; hope everything goes well with your work!
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Posts: 690
@SteelFaith: Just keep in mind some upgrades/units in the campaign cannot be balanced for multiplayer matches, so not all you see in the campaign will be included. Also the idea is that new units/upgrades are unlocked by a faction/tribe/brood, or are made as an option to something in the standard ladder tech tree.

I know there are some exceptions in the mod right now, like Lurkers and Scouts, but only because those haven't found their final destination.
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Posts: 703
Yea, I understand, the way you're doing things is great anyhow. I just hoping there would be some awesome units available from the campaign, like swarmlings, because it would really make certain units like zerglings really dangerous and fun to use in late game.

Suggestion: would you consider adding a new terran upgrade that allows you to transform a starport into a carrier type unit that spawns flying units - possibly wraiths or some kind of defense drones? Also adding the ability from the Science Vessel in WoL campaign to repair mechanical units with it's repair beam? I believe there was a unit like this in SC2 beta, called the Star Base, but it was scrapped.

Also, I played Infested Terran for the first time tonight - was awesome - and was wondering if you might consider adding creep and creep tumors to one of their units, but slowing their units default movement speeds down? I thought this would make them feel more like they are from the campaign.
Edited by SteelFaith on 3/19/2013 12:21 AM PDT
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Posts: 690
But Swarmlings' only changes are hatching by three from eggs and instant hatch, right? I added similar upgrades, but not for the same brood. Instant hatch is too powerful, so I toned it down for the upgrade.

Basically there is a reason SC2 removed the Lift Off ability from some structures (Eng Bay, Ghost Academy). And a functional flying building would be even worse. Think about it: You make some of these and lift them off to a corner of the map, and no ground force can kill them. In team games it means your team mates can support you, while you provide air units, and it would be a pain to deal with.

Creep is one thing we are testing for Infested. The current idea is that the Command Center will produce creep, and possibly Supply Depots too, but only biological units will have increased spped on creep.
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Posts: 703
Well, I wasn't actually talking about a Starport that could produce air units while flying - even though that would be so cool; I was talking about a unit like the Hyperion from the mission "With Friends Like These" where it can release those tactical fighters - pretty much like a protoss carrier unit. Difference being that the Terran Starbase is more of a super unit, has a cap of one, and has the ability to repair mechanical units nearby with it's beam (think of the Science vessel repair ability). Maybe one of the Terran factions, one focused mainly on air units, can have access to it as it's super unit?

Good to hear about the Infested Terrans maybe having creep, I think it's a must to capture their correct feel and lore in the gameplay. Having most of their units able to sprint across the map, opposed to moving slowly like the zombies they are, just feels out of place. But with creep, it would at least make things make sense, and also give them better gameplay managing their creep and controlling the map.

Question about Infested Terran: why isn't there an upgrade for their biological melee units? Or am I missing something?

Also, played around with the swarm host cacoon ability, and it was the coolest unit I've seen in this mod yet.
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Posts: 690
Now I understand your suggestion. Well, its a possibility, and I definitely want to include those tactical fighters somehow. But I wouldn't go and give it too many abilities, as most reports seem to point that single super units aren't really made for a SC2 melee gameplay.

I gave the infested creep some tests, but I had some major issues with structures placement for that faction, so I decided to remove it from the latest update. Please don't use the "slowly like zombies" argument. Blizzard has been portraying infested Terrans as zombies in SC2 and thats NOT TRUE. It is totally possible that infested terrans could be faster than before infestation and I don't like that comparison at all!

There isn't an upgrade for melee infested units because those units may not be final. Ad thats a hard decision to make. It is more likely that the Infantry Weapon upgrade will inlude all infested infantry. Otherwise that faction would have too many upgrades for its units.

I'm glad you liked the infested Swarm Host. Unfortunately we are looking for a better infested 'look' for that unit and simpler mechanics so I can't guarantee the unit will remain the same in future updates.
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Posts: 1
Would you mind publishing the assets for this mod on Mapster? I tried to modify one of the maps i have using Expanded, but I couldn't because the assets were missing. Of course i could always change models, but finding all that is missing is such a pain...
It will also help other modmakers that try to use your mod as a base.
About fighters - how about adding it to Hyperion (just like campaign) for now?
About infested - i think an upgrade that allows their buildings to regenerate will fit them nicely.
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Posts: 690
You can find this mod on mapster. At least an older version of it. You can use the assets mods to open your map and add the mod, there's no real need to have all assets in the offline files.

Those mods used to be public too, but considering how many people 'grab' the custom assets and never give credit to their authors I decided to change that. If people want to use the assets but not my mod they will have to download them from the original sites.

The bad news is that I've been unable to publish maps with the new version of the mod. I contacted Blizzard but got no answer on how to fix it. My suggestion is to wait until I fix the problem and publish a more stable version of the mod (which will also include more changes).

The HoTS version of the Hyperion isn't in the mod yet. There are many ideas on how to use interceptors going on the official thread, so there's nothing decided.

The Infested Terrans already have an upgrade for that, you can find at the Engineering Bay.
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Posts: 13
i'm not entirely sure I understand your anti-zombie infested terran argument...You are basically saying that the developers are wrong for making their creation in their eyes?
It's logical that the speed of an infested creature becomes greatly reduced, especially in the mentally broken state the terran tend to be portrayed...I mean when one side of your body is heavier than the other, the imbalanced state reduces your speed, it's why when I haul water in buckets I always ensure both sides are even so that I can maintain my balance and speed with much less effort. Now that's not to say it's not possible, but consider what the mutations mean to the zerg, Abathur is great at defining it, and what an incomplete mutation of a none zerg versus a pure zerg or more complete mutation. Also consider the bulkiness of the mass within such a small creature versus creatures whose mass expands further. The infested terran likely have more mass per sq. ft. than other larger and faster creatures...

I haven't played your mod yet but intend to as soon as I can. (poor internet means I can't download things except when I need to be asleep, meaning I can only download and play online on thursday-sunday.)
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Posts: 690
I guess I wasn't that clear, let me try again. In SC1 the infestation of Terrans was even more unstable, they were living bombs, still they were faster than a normal Marine. Some infestations were much more stable, specially Kerrigan's. Back then they didn't act like zombies.

In SC2 infestation is in general more stable, and by far. Marines will use their rifles and no infested will detonate itself. We even got what may be the first 'real' Zerg strain based on Terran genes: the Aberration. But because the Outbreak mission, and later Lef 2 Die, portrayed them as zombies the idea spread and now infested terrans = zombies for most people, but not for me. Left 2 Die is a mod and made to be a joke using the Left 4 Dead franchise and nothing more. So the Outbreak mission may be the poorly executed one that caused it (lore-wise, nor gameplay-wise). Another thing that definitely helped to create this idea was the so called Zerg "virus". Where did that come from? Zerg aren't made from a virus, but from larvae. In SC1 you needed a Queen to infest Terran Structures and they would create infested Terrans, but we didn't actually know how. And nothing ever suggested it was contagious, those are the main differences. In SC2 its called a virus and is obviously contagious after what happened on Agria/Meinhoff/Haven. To me it was poorly executed and a shot in one's own knee. Zerg infestation became zombie infestation and much more difficult to explain (when it doesnt happen) at the same time. Why it happened there and not on the multiple worlds the Zerg infested? Can you think of what would have happened in infestation were like that in SC1? Terrans would be extinct by now because all survivors from Mar Sara, Tarsonis and other worlds spread across the entire sector.

You went through the physics of it, but now let's go through the biology of it: When you get infested you 1) can regenerate wounds, including almost lethal ones, and are now immune to most diseases that affect terrans. 2) gain natural weapons and greater strength capable of tearing vehicle armor appart. 3) are still more intelligent than most zerg creatures, you can still talk, you may not be a reasonable person, but I doubt it would make you walk mindlessly into Siege Tank range if there may be other strategies.

None of these sound like qualities zombies would have to me. Infested Terrans have to potential to be so much more, they make me remember that old Species movie. They are a Queen of Blades at level 0 (too bad for them they won't level up). Ok, I agree in the end you have your way to see them and I have mine, but if I can I won't treat them as zombies.

Now, its don't have that huge impact in my mod, but since we have enough zombie maps on Bnet already, let me keep it my way and go back to discuss core mechanics.
Edited by SoulFilcher on 4/11/2013 8:32 AM PDT
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Posts: 690
Hi, today the maps on NA have been updated and now feature HoTS units. The EU update is in progress.
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Posts: 703
Love HOTS edition Soul, very good work! Primal Zerg are absolutely awesome to use, and I like the unique features you have them like those Primal Nests that can move around and make units. Pack leaders rock as well!

Any chance you can make those primal nest type units gain upgrades like other units so they can be more useful in combat?
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Posts: 690
Thank you. The priority now is to identify major bugs and balance issues, then we will move to smaller things. All units will receive weapon and armor upgrades, but primals aren't defined yet. The idea is to set primal strains apart from standard units, but we aren't sure how.

This is the officiasl thread on mapster:

Right now there's a poll to decide which HoTS ladder maps will replace 1v1 maps.
Edited by SoulFilcher on 4/14/2013 7:20 PM PDT
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Posts: 703
I see. Well my friends and I play this game for fun, and not to take things too seriously and worry about balance, but it's your mod and you can worry about what you want, but in my opinion I would focus on this being an entertaining mod and maintaining a "cool" factor. People are going to play ranked if they want to really have a serious competitive experience I think.

So whenever we play, we usually do a FFA, 1v1 on our own, and 2v2 or 3v3 when we're on at the same time. We had a really awesome time with the mod tonight, it was so fun to all go Primal Zerg and crush some terran and protoss.

I think a good way to set Primal's apart is to disable queens and other kinds of Swarm styled units, and replace them with primal pack leaders of different levels of power; named ones like Brakk would be the top tier of pack leaders, whereas early queen replacements could be weaker versions. Some primal units should be able to gain levels as they fight and kill units for essence. Also, how about making the Primal Spawning pool able to gather biomass from dead primal units, and respawn them for a price? The Primal breeding nests (forgot the name) that produces units, should have an upgrade to be able to produce units on the go, so they can move around the map with the pack and replenish them - think how awesome that would be! :)

Those Terran missile cruisers are awesome, but they really need to be able to have the ability to upgrade. Seems like there's a bunch of units that are lacking the ability to upgrade right now?

Any place to read the full patch notes for the latest HOTS version? There's a lot of units and changes I hope made it in, but 'm not sure if they until I get a chance to try each and every faction. For instance, I'm hoping Infested Terran got some kind of creep spread ability.

As for bugs, I think the AI might be bugged in the mod, because when we defeat one AI partner, it seems like the other AI would just stop fighting us once they lost their partner. I'm not sure if this is an issue with SC Expanded or not though?

Thanks again for all your work, makes the game so much better for me and my buddies!
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