StarCraft® II

The inevitable

Posts: 258
After this MLG and all the QQ that it's bringing.
Terran brothers and sisters, prepare for the nerfs.
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Posts: 182
The only nerf I really can see coming is medivac, it is single-handily winning the tournament for the Terran.

So far only one player (Protoss) managed a counter to medivac drop, but the thing is, that terran play was playing WAY to cautiously, if he forced in, he would have won too, but thats because we know the whole map, they cant see it all. Most other terrans would have been more aggressive and would have won.

If they nerf more then the medivac speed (all they would really need to do is increase the CD of the boost by 5 seconds) then they knee jerked way to hard.
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Posts: 258
I see your point but do you think the games would have been any different if this was WoL?
I personally don't its korean terrans beating foreigners nothing new.
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Posts: 182
Its hard to judge some of the matches, thats why I tried to watch them all, some of the matchups were so one sided, everything seem'ed op, but its not coincidence EVERY TvZ matchup went 3-0 cause of medivac drops, they are just really that good.

Ret vs Flash was a good example, even when ret was using the medivac counter (Vipers) it amounted to a whole lot of nothing, because vipers take WAY to long to research and get out to be effective while medivacs come way to early, so you are forced to spend your money to get out defense for the drops, without being able to deal with the issue.

He got out vipers and it helped a lot, but by then it was way to late to stop the onslaught (although, Ret probably would have won that last match if he pushed hard into the base instead of retreating, again though he didnt know there was no defense at the base :P, we did)
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Posts: 258
Ret also had no static defense where he kept getting dropped lol and didnt build any there from what i saw
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Posts: 182
he was losing to many units to make an effective defense, the last game he did better then the first games definately, but the pressure was way to much to try to use resources to make static defenses, with the boost though you can drop while on the run, the spore crawlers would attack 2 times at most, and be the first thing killed in the drop, unless you put a lot, it wouldnt make a difference
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Posts: 55
Honestly, you really can't deny that Terran is OP now. The medivac speed buff was an insanely stupid decision on Blizzard's part, and widow mines are just way too devastating especially against zerg. They are essentially a more easily obtainable baneling that has a longer range, does more damage, and requires detection, with the only drawbacks being that it is stationary and requires 25 minerals.
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Posts: 1,915
I'm convinced Zerg players just have no idea how to evolve their playstyles, they keep relying only on WoL units, i don't think i've seen a single swarm host, and have seen very few vipers in play all tournament. While toss and terran are using their new units to their fullest, so its no surprise zerg are getting dominated with their old tactics.
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Posts: 55
I'm convinced Zerg players just have no idea how to evolve their playstyles, they keep relying only on WoL units, i don't think i've seen a single swarm host, and have seen very few vipers in play all tournament. While toss and terran are using their new units to their fullest, so its no surprise zerg are getting dominated with their old tactics.

I played Zerg, and both swarm hosts and vipers don't shine all too much in ZvT. They are amazing against Protoss, but Terran can shut it down much more easily. You need a ton of swarm hosts to actually use them effectively, and it just simply isn't possible against Terran to make it work. They are fairly frail units and a handful of marines could easily run in, stim, and take a few down before getting killed by the accompanying Zerg army. And Swarm Hosts are incredibly resource heavy. The only use of vipers in ZvT is blinding cloud to shut down a-moving marines, but a little micro would make them obsolete. If you split your marines into a few groups, you need several vipers to cloud all of them due to the massive energy requirements of them.
Edited by Azthot on 3/16/2013 8:07 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,915
03/16/2013 08:04 PMPosted by Azthot
I'm convinced Zerg players just have no idea how to evolve their playstyles, they keep relying only on WoL units, i don't think i've seen a single swarm host, and have seen very few vipers in play all tournament. While toss and terran are using their new units to their fullest, so its no surprise zerg are getting dominated with their old tactics.

I played Zerg, and both swarm hosts and vipers don't shine all too much in ZvT. They are amazing against Protoss, but Terran can shut it down much more easily. You need a ton of swarm hosts to actually use them effectively, and it just simply isn't possible against Terran to make it work. They are fairly frail units and a handful of marines could easily run in, stim, and take a few down before getting killed by the accompanying Zerg army. And Swarm Hosts are incredibly resource heavy. The only use of vipers in ZvT is blinding cloud to shut down a-moving marines, but a little micro would make them obsolete. If you split your marines into a few groups, you need several vipers to cloud all of them due to the massive energy requirements of them.


Zerg players have no right to whine when they refuse to even attempt to use their new units, it reminds me a lot of early WoL where they refused to use infestors till Blizzard made them so powerful they couldn't ignore them anymore. Blizzard is probably going to have to over buff them just like they did infestors before it finally gets to these dense zerg players.

BTW the only game Ret was even close to winning was the game he made Vipers.
Edited by Solo on 3/16/2013 8:15 PM PDT
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Posts: 371
Widow mines will probably get nerfed, but medievacs are still up in the air.
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Posts: 3,054
Reaper - Once again requires tech lab.
Medivac - +5-10 seconds onto cooldown of speed boost or an energy cost of 10-20 added.

Not sure if they'll nerf widow mine. If they do I see something along the line of reduced aoe damage but lower attack cooldown.
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Posts: 2,069
It reallly bothers me that people are seeing Zergs or Protoss with absolutely no static defense get wrecked by drops and saying, "that is clearly imbalanced". At least TRY to build a couple of delaying cannons or Spores plus park a few units in the proper spots. Z and P should see the drops coming if you aren't being completely clueless with Overlord/Observer positioning. If you watch something like Flash/Parting game 3, the only reason Parting lost was that he went for a 1-base Stargate build that Flash shut down, and then proceeded to ward off ALL the possible drops followed by derping with his Zealot/Sentry force and letting them get trapped. Imagine if Parting had just expanded earlier and not made himself exposed; no more drop death. In Life/Last game 1, the only time the boost was seriously relevant was near the end when he abused the Broodlord switch's immobility by getting to the main when the Broods were at the front.

I think we can hope that Kim et al have learned from WoL's process, and will still give it some time before doing any nerfing, just based on the type of comments they're making.
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Posts: 440
Nerf Flash not terran.
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Posts: 440
but seriously, the widow mines played very little in the games that i saw flash play. yes it was annoying but ret and others adapted to it and started sending long zerglings to set it off. flash is a freaken beast there is no denying that. he can pull off 3 or 4 prong attacks without losing a single unit.
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Posts: 588
After this MLG and all the QQ that it's bringing.
Terran brothers and sisters, prepare for the nerfs.


Aaaand now you're QQ'ing.
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Posts: 229
Life dealt with drop pretty well with Muta play + a single spore + spine to buy time + creep connected between bases for speedling to deal with drops.
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Posts: 234
After this MLG and all the QQ that it's bringing.
Terran brothers and sisters, prepare for the nerfs.


Zerg wins the championship, and you think they are going to nerf Terran?
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Posts: 113
MLG is just koreans beating others...nothing new.
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Posts: 1,736
Widow mines will probably get nerfed, but medievacs are still up in the air.


I would be shocked if widow mines got nerfed. They're stupidly easy to trip, and only attacking 1 time every 40 seconds puts them at incredibly low DPS so they're really only good defensively to defend against warp-ins and ling runbys.
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