StarCraft® II

mass 10 min army?

Posts: 103
Right I do a simple 1-1-1 marine, widow mine, medi vac drop at the 10 min mark. With 1/1 marines that have stem and combat shield for vs protoss, and Terran. For zerg it's a marine, firebat, medivac, drop for zerg with 2/2 marines that have stem and shields at the 10 min. Though I keep getting slaughtered by these mass 10 minute armies. Along with the zerg cheesy bangling bust. I can figure out the bangling bust at a different time. What I am needing to know is how are people getting such a massive army so soon in the match? When i find the game I will post it up.
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Posts: 29
Right I do a simple 1-1-1 marine, widow mine, medi vac drop at the 10 min mark. With 1/1 marines that have stem and combat shield for vs protoss, and Terran. For zerg it's a marine, firebat, medivac, drop for zerg with 2/2 marines that have stem and shields at the 10 min. Though I keep getting slaughtered by these mass 10 minute armies. Along with the zerg cheesy bangling bust. I can figure out the bangling bust at a different time. What I am needing to know is how are people getting such a massive army so soon in the match? When i find the game I will post it up.


I'm coming back to the game after a long break so if this is wrong just ignore me but. Why do you have to fight at 10 minutes? You are doing 1-1-1 so you should be able to pressure before then?
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Posts: 367
So....

Lets talk one base play vs 2 base play...

The thing about taking a extra base is it sets you back for a certain period of time and leaves you vulnerable to certain early aggression. However after some time your investment of a 2nd base becomes helpful in it will allow for you to supply more units and allow you to tech up quicker w/ more buildings.

While one base play is ment to have great micro with proper unit positioning and placement (Its like playing chess and manipulating your opponent)

@10:00mins with 2 base play you should be able to have a decent sized army upgrades and have something in mind as to some kind of plan to attack or prepare to be attacked. Try and do something standard like 3 rax 1 fac 1 star and see if you can have 50 SCV's @10mins.

Another thing you are sacrificing unit production with just 1 - 1 - 1 and early upgrades. You could have extra barracks or something cause you have to be prepared to re-supply your army after it gets destroyed. (another benefit of having another base)

Hope that gives you some idea as to what you need to plan for. Remember early unit production at the expense of lower SCV counts will cripple you mid game. Amped up SCV production will set you up for success for the mid-late game.
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Posts: 124
10 minute timings are only good if your enemy is not doing early aggression, need to scout for it.

I've found in hots there are many different attacks in all matchups that hit well before the 10 minute mark which if you're not prepared for you're screwed. Reapers, tank push, banshees, oracles, 4 gate, bling bust, mutas.

Perhaps try to push out earlier, or get really keen at your scouting and adapt to your opponents play. Most people don't really go for macro games like they did in wol.
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Posts: 103
http://drop.sc/312612
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Posts: 103
http://drop.sc/312613
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Posts: 103
apm mostly. That is the standard move out time for terran right? 10 min
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Posts: 1,466
http://drop.sc/312612


I'm going to write this out as I watch the video.

1. Build your supply depot at 10 supply. You're behind economically and you've only just started the game. It also puts you behind for producing units and tech in the future. You can't make a barracks until the depot is done.

2. 2 depots before barracks is bad. You should be making a barracks on 12 supply, and you should immediately make your Command Center into an Orbital Command at 15 supply. Anything else is bad.

3. The only reason your Barracks came out on 12 supply this game is because you aren't producing SCVs non-stop. That is bad early game unless your build specifically calls for you to not build SCVs, and those builds are advanced.

4. Why the Engineering Bay early? You aren't even using it.

5. At 3:17, he has 17 workers to your 13. You are practically irreversibly behind at this point, and neither of you have even made a combat unit yet.

6. You didn't put workers in your first gas geyser, but you built a second one and then put workers in it instead.

7. You're making an absurd amount of Supply Depots early on. That money could have been used to make an expansion or more barracks.

8. Idle workers way too often.

9. Didn't get guys in your initial gas until 8:00.

10. You made a Tech Lab on your Factory but you aren't using it (so why get the Tech lab?).

11. You still aren't making nearly enough workers.

12. Your Orbital Command was really late.

13. You aren't scouting - If you scouted at about 8:19, you would see that he has only 1 Stalker. His entire army is a single Stalker. He immediately starts warping in units after that (3 stalkers + sentry)

14. You aren't making MULEs.

15. I'm going to keep emphasizing this; you're REALLY behind on your economy (not enough workers, not making MULEs,

16. You scanned... empty locations. You should have already known where his base was by sending a single SCV to find his base.

17. You're spending money on tech, causing you to not have enough money to make units. You've got a Starport sitting useless because you have no gas, because you keep spending gas on other stuff.

18. At 13 minutes - His income: 1300 minerals 450 gas; Your Income: 500 minerals 225 gas

19. He has 2 fully saturated bases, your main still isn't even saturated.

20. You didn't drop at the 10 minute mark - you dropped at the 14:00 mark.

21. The attack... oh dear...
You dropped into his line (good)
You spent a lot of time attacking his gas (bad)
You target fired his nexus instead of the remainder of his worker line (bad)
You didn't kill the nexus when it was one second away from dying (really bad) - It died, but it should have died immediately and then you leave
You didn't get back into your medivacs and run away when his army arrived (really really bad)

22. You killed off an entire worker line (close to it) and he still has basically twice as many workers as you.

23. You expanded, and then didn't use the expansion AT ALL.

24. You're queuing hellions (why Hellions? they're bad against Stalkers)

Conclusion:
Had had more stuff than you because he had more money than you and because he spent that money efficiently by making enough unit-producing structures to spend it. A 1-1-1 only works if it is done fast, and efficiently. Your work was neither, and it was slaughtered by a larger force of units which are superior to your Hellions and Marines.
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Posts: 352
Cozy if you need help add me, Vanguard #981, I will help you.
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Posts: 25
2-16 in bronze, change your whole game plan.
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Posts: 206
I think you just don't understand the very basic strategy of them game. So um...

You can cheese.
You can have a big economy and risky defense to try to get a bigger army later.
You can do timing pushes, when upgrades finish, the enemy is at a weak point in his build.
You can build an army composition just to "counter" the enemy's army.

You just need to pick a plan and do it. You can't say ok I'm going to make an army and push with it at 10 minutes that's stupid.

Also, if you have banshees, you should be trying to harass worker line or pick off sentries or whatever. If you have hellions you should have map control and be scouting lots.

Did you do training? Maybe that would help, I haven't done it, but I think new players find it useful.
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