StarCraft® II

MULES still too OP.

Terran should be limited to 3 MULES AT A TIME, NO MORE THAN 3 AT A TIME! Protoss can't double a building. Zerg can't double eject. Why does Terran get to drop multiple MULES? 40 SCV with 6 MULES brings in 2200 minerals while 40 workers only bring in 1200.
Reply Quote
The three races are different....

And even if they weren't, your analogy is incorrect. Zerg can inject multiple hatcheries at once and protoss can chrono multiple Nexuses (Nexi?) at once. Thus, terran should be able to drop multiple mules at once. Based on this analogy, however, one could argue that terran should be limited to 1 mule per orbital command at any given time.

But even this analogy is not persuasive because the three races are different.
Reply Quote
Yes Mules are broken if no one techs up.

Call down supply Most broken spell ever.*sarcasm*
Reply Quote
The three races are different....

And even if they weren't, your analogy is incorrect. Zerg can inject multiple hatcheries at once and protoss can chrono multiple Nexuses (Nexi?) at once. Thus, terran should be able to drop multiple mules at once. Based on this analogy, however, one could argue that terran should be limited to 1 mule per orbital command at any given time.

But even this analogy is not persuasive because the three races are different.


Make it one mule per cc then , or give zerg auto inject, wouldnt effect early game and it would help zerg late game , this game is supposed to be RTS let us focus on the strategy , not real time larvae inject. Zerg HAVE to inject every 40 secs both toss and terran can wait and build up energy and then dump it , zerg cant make up for the delay ......
Edited by KiinGPurP on 3/31/2013 5:10 PM PDT
Reply Quote
The three races are different....

And even if they weren't, your analogy is incorrect. Zerg can inject multiple hatcheries at once and protoss can chrono multiple Nexuses (Nexi?) at once. Thus, terran should be able to drop multiple mules at once. Based on this analogy, however, one could argue that terran should be limited to 1 mule per orbital command at any given time.

But even this analogy is not persuasive because the three races are different.


Make it one mule per cc then , or give zerg auto inject, wouldnt effect early game and it would help zerg late game , this game is supposed to be RTS let us focus on the strategy , not real time larvae inject. Zerg HAVE to inject every 40 secs both toss and terran can wait and build up energy and then dump it , zerg cant make up for the delay ......


If you want a less real time and a more strategy based game, while still being within the RTS genre, try the Total War series. I like those games, but they involve a lot less micro/mechanics/macro. Your strategy decisions in that series tend to be turn based, with optional real time combat (never as micro intensive as SC2 though).

Auto injects would be too powerful an ability for lower level zergs. These lower league players with auto injects could easily jump up a league or so. Injects, supply blocks, and floating money are some of the very common reasons why people are in the lower leagues. Changing this would make zerg the easiest race to play. Unlike protoss and terran, we have the easiest production mechanic in the game. We can quickly mass units through our hotkeyed hatcheries and we don't get punished for not queuing our units on time. Our larvae mechanic gives us some leeway in not producing units all the time. Compare that to terran where if your barracks stop producing due to an unintentional mistake, you will end up with too few units.

The inject mechanic is challenging, but it is no more challenging than remembering to cycle through your barracks, factories, and starports to build the units you need. If you have an idle production facility as terran, you are usually hurting yourself. With zerg, you can just press your hatchery hotkey, see the larvae in all your hatcheries and produce your units all at the same time. Larvae stack to around 20 (could be off slightly) and your natural hatchery larvae production continues till you hit 3. Simply put, you don't have to constantly go through your production facilities making units.

Zergs not injecting is like terrans not making units constantly. Terrans cannot afford to queue units when playing efficiently. Either queuing units or not being exact in your train new unit timings sets a terran back. Similarly, not injecting on time sets a zerg back. Both races are different, thus while there challenges are not the same, they both have challenges.

Note that I am a zerg player. I rarely play any race other than zerg. Even I know that auto inject is way too powerful, unless you create auto production for terrans (e.g. queue units without spending minerals till they start training). While these changes might sound good to you, they would destroy what makes SC2 unique. SC2 is not a pure strategy game. It is a strategy game that emphasizes the real time aspect. I would hate to see that change, and I would hate to see Blizzard make such a change to the game.
Reply Quote
funny how OP probably the most skilled player in this discussion...
Reply Quote
Skilled or not he's still wrong.

Yeah Mules on a Gold is kinda wonky, but a game of imperfect balance will always have things like that. Chronoboosted upgrades are wonky in the same way.

Zerg has to inject, yeah...that's a bit of extra work. But we also queue up our units in a completely different manner than the other two races. With terran, if your barracks isn't building something all the time, it's pretty much sub-optimal. Your delay is reverse with Protoss, where you pay for the unit's production after it's build with warpgates. Charged warpgates are the same as a barracks not making anything. Zerg is a hyrid of the two. We queue our units, but we can also stockpile them in a way. The only punishment is missing injects and having more then three larva, which necessarily offsets that strength that comes with making 20 ling at once off one base.

So Mules, are IMBA...but so is chronot boost and larva injections. If you made it so zerg could auto-inject, you'd have to make it so the other races production facilities could be made to auto-queue.
Reply Quote
This is questionable, I have had games where I kill 40+ SCV's to a Terran player and they just drop mules which helps them still stay in the game like its all okay. If any other race lost 40+ SCV's it would be gg.
Reply Quote
Mules are fine in the current game. If you are having trouble competing against them then you need to work on your macro.

Terran have the least efficient workers in the game since they have to take time to build/repair so they need mules to make up for this.

Think about this like a math eqution, we will have variables t = elapsed time, d = distance traveled, b = build time.

so you will have lost mining time of one worker = t * workers rate of mining (I forget the value but lets just use 30 mins per minute for easy math)

t = d + b

Protoss have the highest worker efficiency since they warp in and can be back to the mineral line with only the travel time as lost mining time.
t = 2d + 0

Zerg lose a worker but have reduced costs for their buildings as well as less of a need for massing buildings than the other race. By losing a worker they free up a supply and can recreate that worker so they lose travel time + drone build time.
t = d + 17(build time of drone) + (the hang time waiting for the minerals for a drone)

Terran have to factor in travel time, build time and possibly harassment time(for easier math I wont include this in any calculations to make things easier).
t = 2d + b(anywhere from 25 seconds to 100 seconds)

Consider that they are all traveling the same distance to build something the terran is getting the short end of the stick with the longest time away from the mineral line.

Do some math before you complain next time.
Reply Quote
L2p
Reply Quote
TERRAN IMBA
TERRAN IMBA
TERRAN IMBA
TERRAN IMBA
TERRAN IMBA
Reply Quote
Threads like these get me through a tough morning, thanks guys.

People even topping it off with suggesting auto-injects, my day is complete.

Zerg economy is exponential, halted by army production. Protoss economy only has chrono boost (which helps alot early on). Terran sacrifices economy to build structures and has part of its workers stored in energy which can't be killed unless you kill the orbital.

Hate the game or accept it and try to make the best of it. It still beats games where you're stuck on 4 spells.
Reply Quote
Bottom line is that Terran has NO need for:

Supply Drop- It rewards bad players, and the other races have nothing even close in comparison. Creates minerals out of thin air(100 for supply dep), and instantly recovers lost game time in seconds, allowing bad players to recover from their F-ups. NOT COOL.

Mules - Balance the game and remove this retarded mechanic. This mechanic is easily abused. The mule was a lazy mans horrible answer to a problem he couldn't figure out. In the late game the other races don't get to drop 75% of their workers to free supply, we cant build 6 of our main bases and then spam energy units to bring in EXTRA cash, or just completely replace the workforce all together.

Scan - another mechanic that is just retarded as it stands. INSTANT scouting, UNDENIABLE, PERIOD. Oh wait, you forgot to build detection and were surprised by something requiring detection.. Just instant scan and kill whatever it was with your BASE UNIT at 50 min..

The further you really delve into it the more you start to see that Terran is BY FAR the favorite race of the developers.

All in all, Terran rewards lower level players. It's been said in the community since the start that you take the exact same ability and put it in a Toss or zerg, and you will be plat.. put that same ability in terran, and its gonna be diamond/masters.

Then they use "win rate statistics" as their evidence for balance, which is just freaking laughable all the way to the bank.
Reply Quote
Its sad because Scan really makes Terran that noob race of choices.

I mean you almost cant do any wrongs with the race.

Forget detection no problem.
Forget to spend you macro mechanic no problem just call down 20 mules at one spot no penalty.
Forget to make supply depot. no problem just call down 10 and ready to go.

Its like what were they thinking.

Time to make it so that Injects can be spend on the same hatchery, so one queen can inject 200 energy worth of energy into one hatch.

Time to make Chronoboost able to stack, so when protoss spends 200 energy the building statys chronoboosted for 4 x duration.
Reply Quote
As an ex Toss and Zerg player who now plays random, I have to say, other races don't realize how retarded Terran macro is. The way I see it, the money boost is a good tradeoff for their harder macro.
Reply Quote
sure because one probe rebuilding an entire base in a matter of a minute or two isn't op,

and zerg being able to remax in the same amount of time isn't op at all either.
Reply Quote
Terran defense squadron coming out in full force today, it seems.
Reply Quote
Terran defense squadron coming out in full force today, it seems.


Look at when this thread was posted. The only post made today was yours.
Reply Quote
Here's a tip I never yet use in my own play.... but it's simple and it evens it out for zergs. I see this in masters games often.

Get 2 overseers, and speed.

Go in and contaminate the orbital command.... every time you do that you get 280 minerals back because it's not going to terran.

If you think about it like that.... It's way OP
Reply Quote
Because it needs to be said:

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3988301731

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3967588498

The maths speaks for itself.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]