StarCraft® II

Two obstacles block a happy ending.

Yes. No job more important than raising kids.
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Now this final thing is pretty much just my thoughts. I can't help but dislike that people are wanting her to give up so much power and the opportunity to do so much just so she can look human. How much good could the zerg do as a constructive force with their adaptability? Would you ask a woman to give up a successful career just so she can be a house wife?


I feel like you are taking it to an unnecessary extreme. There are states between being a detached-from-humanity-personification-of-the-Zerg and a house wife.

Personally, I work under the assumption that Kerrigan's arc will come to an end in LotV. If it doesn't, well, all of my comments are basically moot. And about her physical form, I don't see that as something that must be changed for a happy ending. Jim doesn't seem overly concerned with the shell as long as Sarah (the uncorrupted Sarah) is inside. It would be far more interesting to see the death of Sarah's psionic abilities than her deinfestation.
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I'm happy to take it to an extreme. F#ck feminism. No girl should be ashamed to be a housewife.
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04/04/2013 07:18 AMPosted by Lwyn
Now this final thing is pretty much just my thoughts. I can't help but dislike that people are wanting her to give up so much power and the opportunity to do so much just so she can look human. How much good could the zerg do as a constructive force with their adaptability? Would you ask a woman to give up a successful career just so she can be a house wife?


I feel like you are taking it to an unnecessary extreme. There are states between being a detached-from-humanity-personification-of-the-Zerg and a house wife.

Personally, I work under the assumption that Kerrigan's arc will come to an end in LotV. If it doesn't, well, all of my comments are basically moot. And about her physical form, I don't see that as something that must be changed for a happy ending. Jim doesn't seem overly concerned with the shell as long as Sarah (the uncorrupted Sarah) is inside. It would be far more interesting to see the death of Sarah's psionic abilities than her deinfestation.


As I said that is simply my thoughts on the situation. Saying Kerrigan should return to a fragile human body, when compared to her current one, give up the power she wields and the good she may do with it is similar to saying a top ranked CEO should give up their income and the authority their position grants them to appeal to someone else's standards.

I'm happy to take it to an extreme. F#ck feminism. No girl should be ashamed to be a housewife.


True no girl should be ashamed to be a housewife. No woman should be held back from striving for personal success, wealth and power either.
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04/04/2013 07:52 AMPosted by Inprea
As I said that is simply my thoughts on the situation. Saying Kerrigan should return to a fragile human body, when compared to her current one, give up the power she wields and the good she may do with it is similar to saying a top ranked CEO should give up their income and the authority their position grants them to appeal to someone else's standards.


The power she wields has been nothing but a constant source of grief and misery ever since it manifested and caused her mother's death. I can very easily see her relinquishing that power if given the chance. Though, of course, now it seems that her power is necessary to defeat Amon so it wouldn't make sense to discard it before he is dealt with.

Seems like a plausible move by Amon to strip Kerrigan of her psionic power (and the link to the Swarm) should he be able to do so.
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The power she wields has been nothing but a constant source of grief and misery ever since it manifested and caused her mother's death. I can very easily see her relinquishing that power if given the chance. Though, of course, now it seems that her power is necessary to defeat Amon so it wouldn't make sense to discard it before he is dealt with.

Seems like a plausible move by Amon to strip Kerrigan of her psionic power (and the link to the Swarm) should he be able to do so.


Constant? Her power is what allowed to her to fight alongside of and help Jim. What's the odds of her ever meeting him without that power and would she have even survived the conflict with the zerg without it? Her power is what allowed her to rescue Jim. Would Mengsk have even kept Jim alive if he didn't have to worry about Kerrigan? Could she have hoped to fight through the prison ship to rescue him? That power let her take her revenge and remove a tyrant from power.

It is also that power that gives her the ability to stand against Amon and while Kerrigan may not be the one to defeat Amon without her his victory is assured. Even if she survived the zerg invasion would she and her family survived what came after? None of them would survive Amon.

I would even go as far to say it was a lack of power that cost her the most. When she was a child she had potential but she didn't know how to control it and power is nothing without control.
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Constant? Her power is what allowed to her to fight alongside of and help Jim. What's the odds of her ever meeting him without that power and would she have even survived the conflict with the zerg without it? Her power is what allowed her to rescue Jim. Would Mengsk have even kept Jim alive if he didn't have to worry about Kerrigan? Could she have hoped to fight through the prison ship to rescue him? That power let her take her revenge and remove a tyrant from power.


Constant. Her life went off the cliff the second her mother died to her first psionic outburst. She was taken into the Ghost Program and mentally broken to the point where her morality practically ceased to exist. Only after meeting Jim did she start to gain back glimpses of actual happiness. Her life to me seems to have been "in the negative" for so long that the glimpses are not enough to nullify the psychological destruction. She might be making the best use of her powers now but there is much to do to counteract all the misery.

Point is that without the psionic power, she could have had a normal life, with or without Jim. Similarly, had Jim's son not died he, too, could have had a normal life. There is enough !@#$ in their collective fan already.

It is also that power that gives her the ability to stand against Amon and while Kerrigan may not be the one to defeat Amon without her his victory is assured. Even if she survived the zerg invasion would she and her family survived what came after? None of them would survive Amon.


I was under the impression that it wasn't Kerrigan specifically that was important. The Overmind did not want the Zerg to become Amon's tools so it created an agent unattached to the hivemind. It chose Kerrigan because of her psionic strength and her being in the wrongest place possible at the wrongest time. The point was to rid Amon of the Zerg army that he desired.

I would even go as far to say it was a lack of power that cost her the most. When she was a child she had potential but she didn't know how to control it and power is nothing without control.


You cannot control what you don't know exists.
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04/04/2013 10:35 AMPosted by Lwyn
Constant? Her power is what allowed to her to fight alongside of and help Jim. What's the odds of her ever meeting him without that power and would she have even survived the conflict with the zerg without it? Her power is what allowed her to rescue Jim. Would Mengsk have even kept Jim alive if he didn't have to worry about Kerrigan? Could she have hoped to fight through the prison ship to rescue him? That power let her take her revenge and remove a tyrant from power.


Constant. Her life went off the cliff the second her mother died to her first psionic outburst. She was taken into the Ghost Program and mentally broken to the point where her morality practically ceased to exist. Only after meeting Jim did she start to gain back glimpses of actual happiness. Her life to me seems to have been "in the negative" for so long that the glimpses are not enough to nullify the psychological destruction. She might be making the best use of her powers now but there is much to do to counteract all the misery.

Point is that without the psionic power, she could have had a normal life, with or without Jim. Similarly, had Jim's son not died he, too, could have had a normal life. There is enough !@#$ in their collective fan already.

It is also that power that gives her the ability to stand against Amon and while Kerrigan may not be the one to defeat Amon without her his victory is assured. Even if she survived the zerg invasion would she and her family survived what came after? None of them would survive Amon.


I was under the impression that it wasn't Kerrigan specifically that was important. The Overmind did not want the Zerg to become Amon's tools so it created an agent unattached to the hivemind. It chose Kerrigan because of her psionic strength and her being in the wrongest place possible at the wrongest time. The point was to rid Amon of the Zerg army that he desired.

I would even go as far to say it was a lack of power that cost her the most. When she was a child she had potential but she didn't know how to control it and power is nothing without control.


You cannot control what you don't know exists.


You didn't address the issue of whether or not Kerrigan and her family would have even survived the first Zerg encounters or what came after. You look at Kerrigan's past and yes it was horrible however considering what was happening there is no guarantee that her life without those powers would have been any better. For all we know had she not developed those psionic abilities she would have ended up infested or perhaps seen in her parents infested and been killed by them.

As for the Overmind using Kerrigan. She wasn't detached from the zerg hive mind as I recall she commanded it. Indeed it's mentioned that before that she still felt Amon's influence. What the over mind created was a chance for survival in the Queen of Blades. Could someone lacking Kerrigan's strength achieved the same or better results? Why did the Overmind wait for so long to produce such an agent? She most assuredly wasn't the only terran that could have been captured and used.

I believe a likely answer is that Kerrigan in part due to her power gave the best possible chance of success. The Overmind saw a rare opportunity perhaps the only opportunity it had in this remarkably powerful psionic and took it.

As for not being able to control something you didn't know existed. I never said she should have controlled it then. I said it was lack of control that cost her.
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Seriously though, if the Protoss don't consider looking the other way in LotV, it'll only prove after all these years of encountering terrans and dealing with the Zerg, they've learned absolutely NOTHING.


It is likely that the protoss that Kerrigan encountered on Kaldir are an example of how up-to-date their race is on her status. What I mean is I don't think any of them but Zeratul are aware that she is cleansed of her corruption. When they do finally encounter her, from their perspective, she has merely increased in psionic power, has massacred a population of colonists, and happened to sick a demented brood mother on them (Niadra).

Suppose she helps them fend off hybrids: they will remember her assistance and then vicious betrayal in Brood War. Suppose Zeratul sticks up for her: I can see them accusing him of being mentally corrupted just like Razzagal. They don't have the convenience of perspective that we do.

I am not trying to push this fate, but I think the ONLY way the protoss will be convinced that Kerrigan is "legit" is if is clear that she will fight to death to preserve the galaxy, not just to preserve or extend her own power.
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04/04/2013 10:58 AMPosted by Inprea
You didn't address the issue of whether or not Kerrigan and her family would have even survived the first Zerg encounters or what came after. You look at Kerrigan's past and yes it was horrible however considering what was happening there is no guarantee that her life without those powers would have been any better. For all we know had she not developed those psionic abilities she would have ended up infested or perhaps seen in her parents infested and been killed by them.


We know that her life went to hell. We know that it was mostly because of her off-the-charts psychic powers. We know that it left her mentally scarred. We cannot know what would happen if she hadn't her powers but we do know what happened if she had. She knows what happened. Would it not sound tempting to have another go without the powers, knowing how the other option went? (Figuratively, not suggesting timetravel or any such nonsense)
Edited by Lwyn on 4/4/2013 11:45 AM PDT
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04/04/2013 11:09 AMPosted by DarthTimmy
Seriously though, if the Protoss don't consider looking the other way in LotV, it'll only prove after all these years of encountering terrans and dealing with the Zerg, they've learned absolutely NOTHING.


It is likely that the protoss that Kerrigan encountered on Kaldir are an example of how up-to-date their race is on her status. What I mean is I don't think any of them but Zeratul are aware that she is cleansed of her corruption. When they do finally encounter her, from their perspective, she has merely increased in psionic power, has massacred a population of colonists, and happened to sick a demented brood mother on them (Niadra).

Suppose she helps them fend off hybrids: they will remember her assistance and then vicious betrayal in Brood War. Suppose Zeratul sticks up for her: I can see them accusing him of being mentally corrupted just like Razzagal. They don't have the convenience of perspective that we do.

I am not trying to push this fate, but I think the ONLY way the protoss will be convinced that Kerrigan is "legit" is if is clear that she will fight to death to preserve the galaxy, not just to preserve or extend her own power.


Yep no doubt most of the Protoss campaign will be Zeratul trying to convince the Protoss they have to work together, and with her despite everything she did. Which will probably make him an outlaw or at least at odds with some of the Protoss in charge. A throwback kind of to the original SC Protoss campaign where Tassadar also took a lot of **** for working with the Dark Templar.

As for happy ending. I don't see it happening. The whole Kerrigan flying off into the sunset thing is probably the end of the romance arc. I'm sure Jim will probably show up to the final battle to help out. But I suspect either him, her, or both will die before it's all over. There seems to be a lot of foreshadowing here in that Kerrigan has been trying to strengthen the Brood Mothers as potential replacements. Her character arc is largely finished as well. She has gone from good to bad, and back to good again. There is no where left to go with her really. And if she dies fighting Amon then it may convince the Protoss to consider a truce with what is left of the Swarm. And since Valerian doesn't seem to want to war with either alien race it will leave off with a happy ending in the sense of the Koprulu sector being at peace. Well at least until the UED return some day like Stukov said.
Edited by Sifer on 4/4/2013 12:01 PM PDT
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Now this final thing is pretty much just my thoughts. I can't help but dislike that people are wanting her to give up so much power and the opportunity to do so much just so she can look human. How much good could the zerg do as a constructive force with their adaptability? Would you ask a woman to give up a successful career just so she can be a house wife?


Personally, I never had a problem with her being zerg or her having power. That any of us want her to become human again and relinquish said power is for a few reasons:

1) I think there is a simple desire that people have to see her and Jim rest and share the most absolute closeness that human beings can have. Yes, this includes the sexual, but it also involves the tenderness in physicality that can be displayed in things like hugging and cuddling. It has to do nurturing an equal being. I'm sorry if that is corny but there it is.

2) Kerrigan's power (and nature) implies a responsibility to the Swarm. There is nothing wrong with this at all, but I think a lot of us see it as a dividing force in her life. I would compare it to how certain careers limit one's access to the people that they love. Kerrigan not even being human further limits that access. For Kerrigan to effectively manage the Swarm, she would have to spend a lot of time, energy, and attention on it. To be a little trite, I don't see Jim waiting around on her Leviathan to hang out with her.

3) As it stands I do not realistically see Kerrigan just "handing off" the Swarm to Zagara. For Zagara to take over as the serious head of the Swarm, Kerrigan would either have to be killed or her power would have to be stripped/given up, otherwise she would be a competing power that Zagara no longer has the benefit of "learning from". I do not think that Zagara would tolerate indefinite internship as ruler.

4) Kerrigan's enemies, the primary motivations for her wielding her powers, are being eliminated as this story progresses. Amon is essentially the last obstacle. After he is eliminated (and if Kerrigan survives) the only function left for her powers is to manage the Swarm. I don't think any of us are interested in symbolically erasing her history by her forfeiting her powers, it is merely a matter of where she goes from there. I think many of us bleeding hearts want to see her to choose fulfillment in love rather than in power. In HotS, those really are the competing forces in her struggle, and throughout her life she has had to endure an overabundance of the latter and not enough of the former.
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@Darthtimmy

Cursed character limited

You make a good point with the first one. I understand what you're saying though I don't empathize with it. That's my opinion though so no weight there. Now given the psionic link and it's seemingly endless range as well as the ease with which she processes all that incoming information I don't believe it would be as big of a burden as you say. That's just speculation though I believe on both our parts as we never really get to see how much focus it requires Kerrigan to manage the swarm. Honestly I suspect she may only be in constant communication with a few brood mothers who manage certain parts of the swarm

Sort of like a CEO has supporting officers beneath them. As for her not being human. Ah well I'm used to fantasy settings and relationships like orc and human so her body really doesn't bother me.

Now for your third point. Don't you believe it would be dangerous to give the swarm entirely over to Zagara with absolute authority? As I recall she mentioned the possibility of increasing the intelligence of all her brood mothers. A single absolute ruler is risky as you only have to corrupt one being to turn the whole. It just seems to be that it would work better if Karrigan had 5-12 brood mothers who managed the swarm and she managed them. Well it seems to work well for business.

Now for your fourth point. Don't you believe she at least needs enough power to protect what she loves? Especially if the protoss aren't ready to forgive and forget. A few dark templars with an ax to grind could be quite an issue.
Edited by Inprea on 4/4/2013 12:33 PM PDT
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I think that at some point, the xel'naga cycle will come to its end and there will be serious changes to the zerg and protoss - either the creation of a "good hybrid" or a complete return to a primal state for both races. Or perhaps both races will disappear or leave the galaxy.

I think the hive mind will eventually come to an end. There will be no Swarm - just primal zerg or no zerg. There is no need for there to be a constant line of successors.
Edited by Torloch on 4/4/2013 1:44 PM PDT
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04/04/2013 12:32 PMPosted by Inprea
Sort of like a CEO has supporting officers beneath them. As for her not being human. Ah well I'm used to fantasy settings and relationships like orc and human so her body really doesn't bother me.


Doesn't bother me either. An old couple that is beyond copulation but that still deeply love each other is a great example. However, relatability is key to human... relation. If Jim and Sarah have something to communally work towards, then I can see them keeping a strong bond as they both have context for it. Without it though, really they have no life together. Jim would be closer to a pet than to a significant other. Of a side note... orc and human is not a fair comparison to zerg and human. Orcs are essentially humans but with green skin, robust features and tusks for lower canines. All the physical connection stuff I mentioned earlier is possible with orc/human. Not so with zerg/human.

Now for your third point. Don't you believe it would be dangerous to give the swarm entirely over to Zagara with absolute authority? As I recall she mentioned the possibility of increasing the intelligence of all her brood mothers. A single absolute ruler is risky as you only have to corrupt one being to turn the whole. It just seems to be that it would work better if Karrigan had 5-12 brood mothers who managed the swarm and she managed them. Well it seems to work well for business.


Kerrigan has hinted that Zagara might become the singular leader of the Swarm, and Kerrigan has never once suggested that she intends to remove the dangerousness of the Swarm. I don't think Kerrigan is planning for her retirement, nor for her long term leadership of the Swarm. I think she expecting to be killed one way or another. If she is killed, the Swarm will need a singular leader to provide cohesiveness to the whole: Kerrigan would not risk the Swarm being torn apart either by lack of leadership or civil war for control.

Now for your fourth point. Don't you believe she at least needs enough power to protect what she loves? Especially if the protoss aren't ready to forgive and forget. A few dark templars with an ax to grind could be quite an issue.


As far as protecting what she loves goes, Jim doesn't need protection from the protoss: Kerrigan does. This is starting to touch on my point of needing to reconcile with the protoss. Basically, to be with Jim (if nothing more than because of who he is), I feel there needs to be a point were she has to stop killing in order to protect her own skin. She said many times throughout the HotS campaign that she will pay for her actions... when the time comes. Sometimes, to come clean, you have to submit yourself to those you have wronged.
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2) She either has to pay for what she has done to the protoss (i.e. die), or they have to somehow forgive her. Without something drastic happening, they will not ever forgive her; she will not be allowed to live in peace (it doesn't matter how much the protoss like Jim). If she hides behind the Swarm (to avoid justice that she herself believes she deserves), then the Swarm will never be at "peace" with the protoss (it is possible that her conversation with Lessara foreshadows this).


I assume you mean her actions in heart of the swarm? The protoss did not find out about this. For all they know, they could have been killed by the Overmind.
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Ah, but the Overmind was witnessed to have been killed twice I say! The original by Tassadar and the Doppelganger by Zeratul!

Although, we still don't know whether the warp conduits are still intact. Most likely, the Protoss may eventually send another expedition to find the ruins of an entire colony. Yup. Time for ZvP.
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I assume you mean her actions in heart of the swarm? The protoss did not find out about this. For all they know, they could have been killed by the Overmind.


Overmind died a looooong time ago. I think the toss are gonna put it together once they get Niadra incoming on that ship making a beeline to Shakuras. If Niadra gets any dialogue off, I'm sure she is gonna spill that Kerrigan made her and the "one purpose" that she gave her.

In my mind Kerrigan should only feel personally guilty for what she did to preserve herself in HotS, and for accidentally sicking Niadra on Shakuras. But to the protoss, she is guilty of every crime that she committed before and in addition to that.
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04/04/2013 02:16 PMPosted by UltraNoob
Ah, but the Overmind was witnessed to have been killed twice I say! The original by Tassadar and the Doppelganger by Zeratul!


04/04/2013 02:26 PMPosted by DarthTimmy
Overmind died a looooong time ago.


While the Overmind did die a long time ago, this colony could have been set up a long time ago as well. They would have no idea when the protoss died since the communication is so limited on that planet.

If Niadra gets any dialogue off, I'm sure she is gonna spill that Kerrigan made her and the "one purpose" that she gave her.


This would be the only thing that would give her the blame. I wouldnt be so sure she will spill the beans though. Zerg (Aside from kerrigan) never communicate with anyone non zerg. We can even see niadra not communicating with the protoss she is murdering.
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You have a point about her need to control the swarm not being indefinite. Yet how long is it going to take for her to insure that the swarm is at least moderately safe? At least safe enough that if you were to crash land near their hive they wouldn't come out and murder you. I don't believe it'd be enough just to teach Zagara. That would be like making a nuclear reactor with only one pressure gauge. The swarm is way too dangerous to rely entirely on one person to keep it in check when you don't have to. Especially when that one person is capable of change as just as a person can change for the better they can change for the worse.


She's not relying ONLY on Za'gara. Kerrigan told Abathur to give ALL the broodmothers free will and to think for themselves.
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