StarCraft® II

PvZ Tip - Phoenix Scout, or Oracle Scout?

Posts: 341
Hey guys, I'm a Master level Protoss player, and I need some help.

In WoL, against Zerg, I would always open with the standard PvZ FFE, get an early single stargate, and use my first phoenix to scout. I would then transition accordingly, based on what the phoenix scouted.

In HoTS, is it better to continue sending this Phoenix scout? Or should I send an Oracle Scout instead? Phoenix are slightly faster, more durable, cost a little less, and build faster, I realize. But an Oracle can potentially harass workers if there is no AA, or cast their reveal spell for additional scouting info.

So, should I send an Oracle scout, or a Phoenix scout? Or am I doing it wrong completely by building an early stargate just for scouting?

Anyway, I'm just kinda stuck on the issue, so any help you guys would prefer would be great! Thanks!
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Posts: 1,367
For scouting? I would just use a hallucinated Phoenix or Observer.

Unless you are planning on harassing anyways, in which case, phoenixes are the "safer" harass unit, while Oracles are the "more risky" harass unit. It is easier to stop an Oracle, but if not stopped, Oracles will do 10x more damage than a phoenix.

But for strictly scouting, phoenix or hallucinated phoenix.

Ultimately, there is no "right or wrong" answer, it is entirely up to you, on what strategy you decide to use. Phoenixes will get you more reliable scouting information, while oracles will provide a bigger opportunity for dealing damage.
Edited by Erpman on 4/10/2013 11:36 AM PDT
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Posts: 14,870
Hey guys, I'm a Master level Protoss player, and I need some help.

In WoL, against Zerg, I would always open with the standard PvZ FFE, get an early single stargate, and use my first phoenix to scout. I would then transition accordingly, based on what the phoenix scouted.

In HoTS, is it better to continue sending this Phoenix scout? Or should I send an Oracle Scout instead? Phoenix are slightly faster, more durable, cost a little less, and build faster, I realize. But an Oracle can potentially harass workers if there is no AA, or cast their reveal spell for additional scouting info.

So, should I send an Oracle scout, or a Phoenix scout? Or am I doing it wrong completely by building an early stargate just for scouting?

Anyway, I'm just kinda stuck on the issue, so any help you guys would prefer would be great! Thanks!
If you HAVE to spend the gas for scouting, then use an Oracle from your stargate. It has more long-term use, and can instantly be used for harassment against naked expo attempts by Zerg, while a single Phoenix is essentially a 100 gas paper-weight.
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Posts: 735
If you want to pull uber mind games you can one phoenix scout and make him think you are spending your gas on sentries and hallucinating phoenix and not going stargate. But that's uber meta mind game stuff.
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Posts: 3,292
what's wrong with just having the phoenix patrol the map and go automatic ovie-hunting for the next 10 minutes?
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Posts: 161
mass voids. don't scout. just go straight into voids.
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Posts: 953
3 phoenix for scouting. As with 3 of them you can scout and harass. Pick off a few overlords, kill a queen, even grab a few drones...

And if they try to transition into mutas, you've already got phoenix on the field...
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Posts: 304
Hey guys, I'm a Master level Protoss player, and I need some help.

In WoL, against Zerg, I would always open with the standard PvZ FFE, get an early single stargate, and use my first phoenix to scout. I would then transition accordingly, based on what the phoenix scouted.

In HoTS, is it better to continue sending this Phoenix scout? Or should I send an Oracle Scout instead? Phoenix are slightly faster, more durable, cost a little less, and build faster, I realize. But an Oracle can potentially harass workers if there is no AA, or cast their reveal spell for additional scouting info.

So, should I send an Oracle scout, or a Phoenix scout? Or am I doing it wrong completely by building an early stargate just for scouting?

Anyway, I'm just kinda stuck on the issue, so any help you guys would prefer would be great! Thanks!


Oracles are worthless against Z, unless your going for a cheese, where you stockpile them and go in at the same time. A single early stargate is fine, you should make around 3-4 pheonix's, but make sure you have robo and gates behind it. ie: you would want 1 stargate, 1 robo, 4-5 gates before you take your third. Use your pheonixes to clear watch towers, snipe overlords, queens, etc, so he can't see your third timing right away. Switch into colossus as soon as hydras come out, this will let you get your third easily.
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Posts: 2,098
Normally you'd wait for 3-4 phoenixes so that you can pick off queens before spore crawlers get up as a single phoenix scout lets zerg react to your tech better in return for the scouting information.

Oracles are worthless against Z, unless your going for a cheese, where you stockpile them and go in at the same time


Not sure why you think this. 1 oracle can take a queen 1v1. I wouldn't invest heavily in oracles, I've been enjoy opening with an oracle first as it makes it easy to pick off a queen if there isn't a 2nd on ready with a transfuse and also cleans up early zerglings pretty well if you are doing any kind of combined gateway/stargate pressure.
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Posts: 14,870
Not sure why you think this. 1 oracle can take a queen 1v1. I wouldn't invest heavily in oracles, I've been enjoy opening with an oracle first as it makes it easy to pick off a queen if there isn't a 2nd on ready with a transfuse and also cleans up early zerglings pretty well if you are doing any kind of combined gateway/stargate pressure.
Not to mention that Revelation from just 1 Oracle means you have constant vision of the Zerg army and will never be counter-attacked without you knowing about it and being really prepared.
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Posts: 3
Pheonix for Zerg, Oracle for Terran. If you go the other way around you tend to end up wasting your money
Edited by TagTeam on 4/11/2013 11:54 AM PDT
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Posts: 654
I know I am no where near your league, but my best guess would be pheonix for sheer speed. Oracle is a great choice against most races, since you have the option to harass on top of scout, but up against Zerg you have those bothersome queens to worry about.

Pheonix can lift, and also they scout extremely fast.
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Posts: 5,343
If you're gonna buy units from the Stargate, I would use an Oracle just for the possibility to do damage. However, a Phoenix will come faster so you can get an earlier scout, you might be able to pick off a couple Overlords as well.

Alternatively, you could make 3-4 Phoenixes and harass that way. That's more expensive, though.
Edited by NinjaDuckBob on 4/13/2013 8:27 AM PDT
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Posts: 6,897
The problem here is how you are recycling the unit you are using to scout. Purely for scouting I would just say scout with hallucinations. If you build a Stargate to scout you better get some god damn use out of it. So get the Oracle, which is a great scout and if you see an undefended mineral line, punish it. It also has the great effect of forcing spores and maybe Hydras even if it doesn't do anything. A single Phoenix is incredibly useless.

If you HAVE to spend the gas for scouting, then use an Oracle from your stargate. It has more long-term use, and can instantly be used for harassment against naked expo attempts by Zerg, while a single Phoenix is essentially a 100 gas paper-weight.
This is pretty much what I said as well.
Edited by Razgriz on 4/13/2013 9:38 AM PDT
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