StarCraft® II

Question about Zerg vs Widow Mines

Posts: 330
Returning Zerg player with a question about Widow Mines vs Zerg.

From what I understand, WM's give Zerg so much trouble because of a. how cost effective they are, b. how easy they are to mix in with an army, and c. they also attack air (so scouting for them with an overseer is a pain and attacking a mineral line increases in difficulty when mixed with turrets.)

Correct my if i'm wrong on the above or am leaving anything out. This is just what I've drawn from browsing the forum(s).

My question is: Would removing their anti-air capabilities be a good move towards "fixing" them (if they need fixing)?

They would still be able to do the job of making life difficult for packs of Zerglings and other clumped up units while letting Mutas put on pressure and force more static defense.

I'm having a hard time thinking of how it was affect TvP, if even.
Reply Quote
Posts: 497
No, they need to hit air. However I'd like to see them take damage from other WM's until the faster burrow is researched, so that early game mines can't be stacked so n00bily to great effect.
Reply Quote
Posts: 708
It would be fine if they just weren't able to hit overseers.
Reply Quote
Posts: 676
The entire purpose of the Widow Mines was to fill an anti-Mutalisk role that Terrans whined they did not have. This, despite possessing Marines, Thors, Ravens and Missile Turrrets, some of the hardest counters to our flying shrimp available.

If they did not hit air, that would totally make them balanced. Then they couldn't defeat things like Overseers or Observers.
Reply Quote
Posts: 330
That's kinda what I figured. I couldn't understand the need for another anti-muta unit when as you mentioned, they already have so many.
Reply Quote
Posts: 62
Lol. Marines can't stop mutas harrass , mutas move too fast (Don't forget terrans don't have creep to go back to base quickly), when there is just 6-7 mutas turrets are fine , but when there are 20 mutas , turrets dies too quickly to do anything , thors are just too slow to defend agaisn't mutas harrass , ravens are also slow and seeker missile is easy to dodge. All those units you named are good agaisn't mutas in a battle in the middle of the map , but otherwise terran's can't do anything agaisn't muta harrass.
Reply Quote
Posts: 89
lololololololol
Reply Quote
Posts: 121
Not hit air, not sure but possibly. They could also be left as is... but are some form of one shot. Or they could be as is, but 1/2 range or some form of damage nerf.

I don't know off hand what version of the mines would be optimal *and* balanced for all 3 matchups. I only know that right now they do need some form of fixing (in a fairly substantial way).
Edited by Bigdigs on 4/13/2013 2:15 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,732
Not hitting air would do so many wonderful things for balancing them out.

Reducing their range would be pretty awesome to (its 5 atm i belive, make it 3 so roaches can kill and more time to react when running an overseer around)

I feel like the biggest problem with them is that zerg doesn't have a unit it "builds any way" to deal with the widow mine. Terran have marines which out range it and protoss have stalkers, both of witch are present in virtually every game involving those races. Our only ground units that out range it are queens and hydras wich means that unless you want to build hydra's against terran (lol) or march your queen off creep (lol) chances are you MUST sac a unit in order to kill that mine, more if its in a group.
Reply Quote
Posts: 11,099
Marines can't stop mutas harrass , mutas move too fast

Are you saying Widow Mines are faster than Marines?

Terran definitely have it easiest against Mutas right now.
But the Widow Mine hitting air seems fine to me. If they didn't, it would remove my favorite counter, Overlords.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1
Its op... they really need to be nerfed (range) the fact that you can stack them outside ur base, when u have siege tanks on the cliffs out of vision..... no way to beat them....... if you try banelings, they die to tanks and they cost soo much. by the time that u are able to destroy them, they have already build another 5 mines...... its rediuclous.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,485
lol mutas move to fast...........but terran dropships dont?
Reply Quote
Posts: 52
How about a blast radius nerf, if any? It'll shutup all the zerg complaints about ling mob casualties and still counter bad muta play.Also, less Friendly fire for the terran army. The thing is supposed to be an apm sink so of course it's going to require some micro. Widow mines don't seem OP to me, I just die a little inside every time a mine kills a mob of lings.
Reply Quote
Posts: 30
LOL "they move too fast" -- because marines do not stim? and if the zerg ends up with 20 mutas, it means you deserve to lose.
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,489
you know what stops muta harass? PUSHING INTO THE ZERGS BASE. because if we have a lot of mutas, there really isn't much left to defend with, other then perhaps spine crawlers.
Reply Quote
Posts: 121
I think Winner Mines need a few changes alright. They need a range increase to 8 to be able to act effectively as static defense, and a 120 splash damage so that a single Winner Mine can one shot a pack of 20 Mutalisks. Having to make 3 of them is too much investment.
The counters Terran have to 20 Mutalisks are too weak too. A single Thor or Turret being unable to defeat an army is outrageous!

I resort to sarcasm because in my opinion they make ZvT impossible for a Zerg with equal skill.
Every Terran who knows how to make a biomine composition has beaten me so far. Different compositions I've tried are never cost efficient, no matter if my army was more valuable or more varied.

On the other hand, whenever a Terran doesn't make Winner Mines, there is a good chance they will end up out-macroed and overrun. ZvT has been reduced to that simple variable to me.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]