StarCraft® II

Brutalisk

Just have to ask, why is the Brutlisk not a buildable unit?
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Iv'e felt this way since I played the campaign. It would solve the ZvAir Problems with its long anti air range and since its vs Ground is so powerful but is single shot and so slow and the movement speed of the unit is so slow it could be balanced + Zerg has the least AA and least tier 3 units and it would give +3 Ranged attack a tier 3 usage that it currently doesn't have. :)
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No brutalisks , no corruptors , no devourers , no guardians , no scourge , no nydus , no hunter-killer , no defiler , no sniper-queen , no overseer
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My main question is... why the hell weren't Nydus canals buildable? That's like the bread and butter of zerg ground forces if I'm not mistaken... overlords not being able to become overseers and not being able to carry units was also a disappointment.

Brutalisks and Omegalisks not being buildable was a little disappointing, but unsurprising. It would have been epic if the evolution mission let you have a version of the brutalisk or omegalisk toned down to be playable, meaning ultralisks gain a ranged air attack and maybe deal more damage or just become powerhouse tanks that can take a mega beating but not deal a lot more damage.
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No brutalisks , no corruptors , no devourers , no guardians , no scourge , no nydus , no hunter-killer , no defiler , no sniper-queen , no overseer


I appreciate that Blizz took the time to at least include:
1) Rescueable Brutas
2) Dehaka has Guardians in the final mission
3) Scourge nests

But I was really disappointed that we didn't get the other stuff. Also disappointed that the Leviathan you get to control is nothing like the one you fight against in WOL.

For what very little it is worth, Corrupters are referenced in the lore. If you click on the Evolve Brood Lord option and read Abathur's notes about the unit, it says something like "Corrupters unable to be reconstituted into swarm, Mutalisks must suffice."
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04/09/2013 08:21 AMPosted by Gergall
Also disappointed that the Leviathan you get to control is nothing like the one you fight against in WOL.


Are you sure? I think it was the same. Except perhaps the ability to spawn mutas and brood lords. And of course the timed life. But otherwise, the same.
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I felt like the Brutalisks you get to control in HOTS were nowhere near as powerful as the Brutalisks in WOL. But maybe it was just because I was using them instead of fighting against them.
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I felt like the Brutalisks you get to control in HOTS were nowhere near as powerful as the Brutalisks in WOL. But maybe it was just because I was using them instead of fighting against them.


Yeah, them and the Levithians were pretty much exactly the same as in WoL. The reason the Brutalisks felt so amazing in WoL was because you usually had a super limited army when you went against them.
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I appreciate that Blizz took the time to at least include:
1) Rescueable Brutas
2) Dehaka has Guardians in the final mission
3) Scourge nests

But I was really disappointed that we didn't get the other stuff. Also disappointed that the Leviathan you get to control is nothing like the one you fight against in WOL.


It is, but they had to remove the spawn Mutalisks and Brood Lords ability because that was far too powerful. Go into the map editor, place a Leviathan, and play it. Infinite units, literally.

Also, most of the old units in BW have been replaced, or are "Uneeded." Most of the replaced units pop up in the campaign, like Goliaths, Wraiths, and Lurkers, but the AA units like Valkyries, Devourers, and Corsairs don't show up because they're unneeded.
- In WoL we have Vikings and Wraiths, which both take up the role of the Valkyrie.
- In HotS there are few AA units due to it being Hero focused, so no Devourer and Scourge.
- Infestors and Vipers take up the role of the Defiler, and they're too defensive anyways.
- Queens also have their role taken up, and their abilities are scattered to other units.
- Corsairs, Reavers, and Dark Archons, we don't know about yet. LotV has some time to show up.

If it is any consolation, there is someone within Blizzard trying to get them into LotV:
http://phillgonzo.deviantart.com/art/Zerg-Compare-358688025
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04/09/2013 06:04 PMPosted by Martiny
Also, most of the old units in BW have been replaced, or are "Uneeded." Most of the replaced units pop up in the campaign, like Goliaths, Wraiths, and Lurkers, but the AA units like Valkyries, Devourers, and Corsairs don't show up because they're unneeded.


Those units are needed for flavor , exactly like flavor is needed in a cake ... you can't say It's useless
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Also, most of the old units in BW have been replaced, or are "Uneeded." Most of the replaced units pop up in the campaign, like Goliaths, Wraiths, and Lurkers, but the AA units like Valkyries, Devourers, and Corsairs don't show up because they're unneeded.


Those units are needed for flavor , exactly like flavor is needed in a cake ... you can't say It's useless


I agree with you I really want more unit variety than this but I expected that actiblizz will not care at all. they could do really much more but why would they bother...

Every recent blizzard expansion or game feels rushed and missing many features delaying patches etc I cant say anything about MoP but SC2, D3 and Cataclysm, WotLK felt like it.

also HardCore I want to apologize for attacking you in other topic now I am in hurry so I dont have time to post there I used to know guy that goes by same nick in other RTS game forums and he was complaining and trolling 24 /7 until they permabanned him so I was thinking you were same guy sorry :P
Edited by Riel on 4/10/2013 2:55 AM PDT
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Every recent blizzard expansion or game feels rushed and missing many features delaying patches etc I cant say anything about MoP but SC2, D3 and Cataclysm, WotLK felt like it.


Don't get me started about WoW , i will never forgive Blizzard for what they did to the Warcraft franchise ... never

also HardCore I want to apologize for attacking you in other topic now I am in hurry so I dont have time to post there I used to know guy that goes by same nick in other RTS game forums and he was complaining and trolling 24 /7 until they permabanned him so I was thinking you were same guy sorry :P


It's ok
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Those units are needed for flavor , exactly like flavor is needed in a cake ... you can't say It's useless


But the thing is, they couldn't be added. They interfered with the gameplay they were trying to achieve.

Valkyries just wouldn't be good for the campaign, because: 1) Vikings are similar yet superior and have alike upgrades and costs, and 2) They would have made certain missions too easy, where the enemy aims for lots of air units you could just make Valkyries and it would be a cakewalk. In HotS, they weren't added because they didn't want the campaign to be air vs air battles.

Devourers are unable to be added because, again, the campaign isn't an air-geared campaign, and they would make it a bit too easy. (I also don't know where they would be implemented)

I will hold to my stance that Corsairs, Reavers, and Dark Archons are likely going to show up in LotV. And also, I believe that Devourers, Defilers, and possibly Valkyries will show up as well. So chill for now :P

I agree with you I really want more unit variety than this but I expected that actiblizz will not care at all. they could do really much more but why would they bother...

Every recent blizzard expansion or game feels rushed and missing many features delaying patches etc I cant say anything about MoP but SC2, D3 and Cataclysm, WotLK felt like it.


...Sigh.
I'm tired of people saying stuff like this. I don't know why people can't just enjoy the game for what it is. HotS has a plethora of good features, an enjoyable campaign, a better balanced MP then other games, and good visuals, but every person has one thing they don't like that ruins their entire experience.

I'm not mad in the slightest, but people shouldn't be so petty. Nothing is perfect.
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04/09/2013 06:04 PMPosted by Martiny
but the AA units like Valkyries, Devourers, and Corsairs don't show up because they're unneeded.


But but but

Mira Han/Horner used Valkyries in "With Friends like These..." to defend her space mining facility thing!
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I understand not being able to build the Valkyries, Corsairs, and Devourers, they where amazing units in the 1st game but they where replaced in the second i am fine with that. would i have liked to see a little throwback to em but i can live without it.

what upsets me is they made units like the brutalisk they show it off and put it out there to fight against in Wol and now in Hots you get to use them in like one mission they never give any explanation of what they are why we cant use them or anything.

The brutalisk would solve alot of the problems that the zerg face at all different lvl's of play and it would be amazing to have.

as for units not fitting into the campaign i understand that but at the same time i would have liked to see a few mission that required air supperiorty.

I also dont believe i ever saw a shredder mine in the campaign, or if i did they werent very noticable i dont think i ever saw any of the protoss new units either?
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04/10/2013 07:08 PMPosted by Martiny
They interfered with the gameplay they were trying to achieve.


That's Blizzard's problem , if they cant achieve the quality previous games had ... that's just bad for them ... and us ...

04/10/2013 07:08 PMPosted by Martiny
Valkyries just wouldn't be good for the campaign, because: 1) Vikings are similar yet superior and have alike upgrades and costs, and 2) They would have made certain missions too easy, where the enemy aims for lots of air units you could just make Valkyries and it would be a cakewalk.


Valkyries are present in the Starcraft 2 Hots campaign , they only appear in the Hyperion mission ...
And no , Valkyries are different than vikings ... they do aoe damage and they can't turn into a combat-walker ...
And by the way , I was talking about the hots campaign , not multilayer ...

Devourers are unable to be added because, again, the campaign isn't an air-geared campaign, and they would make it a bit too easy. (I also don't know where they would be implemented)


Blizzard should have just made more missions , and give us some missions where we have to rely mostly on air . WoL did that , and it was awesome ... WoL did not force to go air , but it made you want ... to go air ... so yeah

I will hold to my stance that Corsairs, Reavers, and Dark Archons are likely going to show up in LotV. And also, I believe that Devourers, Defilers, and possibly Valkyries will show up as well. So chill for now :P


A designer from blizzard talked a lot about this : http://phillgonzo.deviantart.com/art/Zerg-Devourer-359035472

04/10/2013 07:08 PMPosted by Martiny
I don't know why people can't just enjoy the game for what it is. HotS has a plethora of good features, an enjoyable campaign, a better balanced MP then other games, and good visuals, but every person has one thing they don't like that ruins their entire experience.


I am/was a huge Starcraft 2 fan , and hots totally trashed (in my eyes) the Starcraft 2 franchise (bad story-wirting ... and the game felt like a chore ... it was also stupidly linear and easy , with very little diversity)
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Valkyries are present in the Starcraft 2 Hots campaign , they only appear in the Hyperion mission ...
And no , Valkyries are different than vikings ... they do aoe damage and they can't turn into a combat-walker ...
And by the way , I was talking about the hots campaign , not multilayer ...


That doesn't count. It's not really a Valkyrie, it's never named and doesn't attack the same. It's just another enemy to kill.
In WoL Vikings could deal splash damage and have twice as much range as the Valkyrie. And it can land. So it does kind of overlap.
I think we should have been able to fight Valkyries in HotS though, it would make massing Mutas not as easy.

04/11/2013 02:23 AMPosted by HardCore
Blizzard should have just made more missions , and give us some missions where we have to rely mostly on air . WoL did that , and it was awesome ... WoL did not force to go air , but it made you want ... to go air ... so yeah


I'll elaborate a little. Blizzard wanted the campaign to be Hero based, so they de-emphasised the units and made it focused on Kerrigan and stuff. I'm not totally sure why that eliminated air, but Dustin Browder said it did, so... meh :/

A designer from blizzard talked a lot about this : http://phillgonzo.deviantart.com/art/Zerg-Devourer-359035472


Lol, the one time I don't post a link to Phillgonzo, someone else does for me XD

I am/was a huge Starcraft 2 fan , and hots totally trashed (in my eyes) the Starcraft 2 franchise (bad story-wirting ... and the game felt like a chore ... it was also stupidly linear and easy , with very little diversity)


It shouldn't have made your whole gaming experience sour though. Try playing it again, but play around. Mass Vipers. It's supposed to be fun.
I agree, the game was linear. But I think the story was just fine. Kerrigan gets de-infested, then reclaims her broods from different planets, gets re-infested, discovers the primary antagonist which was planned from the very freaking beginning, then goes and kills Mengsk. (the person who was going to die anyways, and who shouldn't show up in LotV)
I think it's great. Sure, it's stereotypical, but what do you expect? There's not much you can do with this story that is otherwise. And about Diversity? There were 2 different versions of every unit, and all the missions had some unique flavor to them.
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I would love it if they brought back the Valkyrie. They don't even need to put it in the campaign. Just give it an updated model and put it in the map editor. I no most of the other old units are in the map editor.
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It is, but they had to remove the spawn Mutalisks and Brood Lords ability because that was far too powerful. Go into the map editor, place a Leviathan, and play it. Infinite units, literally.

There are so many overpowered abilities in the game I'm surprised they would even bother to nerf it. Especially when "spawn an entire free army", "spawn an infinite stream of zerglings forever" and "spawn 6 banelings with double-damage and splitter to a target location" are among Kerrigan's standard abilities.
Edited by Quadratic on 4/19/2013 9:24 PM PDT
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