StarCraft® II

Words of top GM toss. 7gate blink allin PVZ..

Posts: 425
Can almost always win as long as you're the better player? He said this is true even up to high gm, when I spoke to him earlier today. Anyone use this build? If so, what are your thoughts on it as well? I just can't believe zerg can't scout and prepare for it. He suggested this build to help get comfortable with zerg, and it's simplicity.
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Posts: 376
Hellokitty is right. I have many many replays of me beating high master players with this build. My pvz winrate is currently 80% by using his builds vs 1.2k master zergs.

If u want replays and i can share.
Edited by Nerffy on 4/16/2013 11:39 AM PDT
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Posts: 2,098
Were you by any chance talking to hellokitty? He's notorious for running a +1 4-gate zealot into 7 gate blink all-in for nearly every PvZ and has been seeded into the WCS North America Code S.

It really can beat pro zergs, but can also be shut down if the zerg plays right. It comes down to a lot of micro on the part of the blink player.
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Posts: 138
This type of build is based upon your skill until you hit high master, then its based off the zerg being bad, there is a reason no high level Koreans do this build every time, its not to say its a bad build, but pro zergs simply go "okay i'll beat this now" in most situations. That being said its a great way to improve your skill level blink micro is an extremely important skill to have.

Also i'm surprised you are allowed to write on this page nerffy, i thought they'd have banned all your accounts by now. But i digress.
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Posts: 376
There is probably no zerg on NA that can beat this build without knowing its coming unless its kane idra or scarlettt because of insane macro.

edit:Im not the real nerffy as u can see i dont play terran nor am i grandmaster.
Edited by Nerffy on 4/16/2013 12:10 PM PDT
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Posts: 153
@Nerffy, some replays would be great, thanks!
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Posts: 425
Hellokitty is who I was talking to use. I've seen a lot of negative feedback on this build, but he spoke very highly of it. I did see a vod of him doing it, so I'll have to rewatch and try it myself. I can say that it was kind of a close'ish call with him losing. ((This was on his EU master vs another master, mind you.)) Anyways, hoping this build will help build confidence towards pvz, improve my micro, and understand a bit on how to control zerg a bit more.

I'm sure it won't be easy as 1,2,3 considering I'm starting this at top dia, with an even higher mmr. But from his words, as long as I'm the better player, this build will work. Also if any of you have some replays of this build showing your success, please share! Would like to see how someone performs doing this without being top gm, haha.
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Posts: 750
04/16/2013 10:03 AMPosted by Decreed
Can almost always win as long as you're the better player?


Wouldn't you almost always win if you're the better player no matter what your opponent does?
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Posts: 3,501
Wouldn't you almost always win if you're the better player no matter what your opponent does?

No. I've beaten a Master level Zerg by cannon rushing him and holding off the countering roach rush, doesn't make me the better player. :)
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Posts: 376
ok i will get a few from KR EU and NA. I dont save my replays on NA sadly :(

http://drop.sc/324547
http://drop.sc/324548
http://drop.sc/324555
http://drop.sc/324556
http://drop.sc/324560

Looking at my replay folder, I dont really do the build that much anymore because I'm trying out newer things like his 4 gate dt into 3 base all in and other stargate builds. This is a build I did along time ago so I'm leaning away from it but i still cant remember the last time i lost with it.
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Posts: 750
04/16/2013 01:58 PMPosted by BlackAdder
Wouldn't you almost always win if you're the better player no matter what your opponent does?

No. I've beaten a Master level Zerg by cannon rushing him and holding off the countering roach rush, doesn't make me the better player. :)


Hence the "almost".

But really, I think that regardless of whether you play a macro-heavy style or you're a serial cheeser, the way you execute either of these styles is what determines your skill. It takes a lot of quick thinking and snap decision making to pull a cheese off against a good opponent, just like it takes excellent mechanics and foresight to play for the late game.

Getting back on topic, how come this build is now suddenly super powerful? Wasn't the +1 4-Gate into 7-Gate Blink all-in something that was considered to be outdated/figured out back in WoL?
Edited by EthanKairos on 4/16/2013 2:04 PM PDT
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Posts: 376
Hellokitty replay pack is literally a free ticket to gm with the all-in builds he uses and opponent still cannot stop it from coming. I actually know someone on EU that copies ALL of his builds and high master there. I would all in to grandmaster on NA but I am to lazy to do so.
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Posts: 3,501
Getting back on topic, how come this build is now suddenly super powerful? Wasn't the +1 4-Gate into 7-Gate Blink all-in something that was considered to be outdated/figured out back in WoL?

HelloKitty did this build all the time in WoL, including WCS. All he's saying is that it still works.

Hence the "almost".

But really, I think that regardless of whether you play a macro-heavy style or you're a serial cheeser, the way you execute either of these styles is what determines your skill.

Sure, but the fog of war matters, and even good players rely on it, which is why trash maphackers get in GM. Only a small minority of my games are cheese in part because it's not strictly better than straight-up play. But in SC2, there really are a lot of "I cut corners and you abused it so I lose" coin-flippy plays. And SC2 rewards that kind of thing such that you really can beat people with far better mechanics.
I had to lol when I watched Root CatZ give a lesson as a Protoss and some plat Zerg just roach busted him and won (this is back in WoL when CatZ spent some time as top 10 NA GM, and he plays fairly well off-race). That's SC2. :)

But back to the point. Blink all-in is one of those plays that doesn't have a hard counter. Generally the player with better mechanics will win, and that is an interesting property of a build.
Edited by BlackAdder on 4/16/2013 2:16 PM PDT
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Posts: 376
This type of build is based upon your skill until you hit high master, then its based off the zerg being bad, there is a reason no high level Koreans do this build every time, its not to say its a bad build, but pro zergs simply go "okay i'll beat this now" in most situations. That being said its a great way to improve your skill level blink micro is an extremely important skill to have.

Also i'm surprised you are allowed to write on this page nerffy, i thought they'd have banned all your accounts by now. But i digress.


The reason why korea protoss dont use this build is because its very outdated and good zergs know how to beat it. AS i said the only zergs on the server that can beat this build consistently are the ones listed above. I remeber oGsVines being one the the creators of the build back in 2011 and he would demolish NA ladder with 90% winrate. Theres is also a variant of Desrow on youtube beating Sheth and Idra too. Mc used the 7 gate blink all in with no pressure and he did it alot and there are still players like Creatorprime that still use it.
Edited by Nerffy on 4/16/2013 2:18 PM PDT
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Posts: 425
Downloaded the replays, I'll check it out and see how well it does. :) Once I do try this build, I'll definitely post again to let you guys know how it does for me.
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Posts: 83
This is kind of an expansion to this thread and one of my own. I think 7 gate with 1-1 upgrades is easier to pull off than immortal sentry in PvZ. It seems like the meta game on large maps in to get lings for map control, get a 3rd base, and mass mutas for the win. Why would I learn immortal sentry when the 7 gate I just described seems to work just fine?
Edited by Macroscincus on 4/16/2013 2:23 PM PDT
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Why would I learn immortal sentry when the 7 gate I just described seems to work just fine?

With either one, you're dead if they spine+ling up and just hold long enough to get out mutas. ;)
EDIT: I should mention this is a big if: you are supposed to win with a blink all-in against a muta player.
Edited by BlackAdder on 4/16/2013 2:56 PM PDT
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Posts: 2,098
04/16/2013 02:32 PMPosted by BlackAdder
Why would I learn immortal sentry when the 7 gate I just described seems to work just fine?

With either one, you're dead if they spine+ling up and just hold long enough to get out mutas. ;)


Actually 7-gate blink all-ins are pretty much a hard counter to muta builds or at least it was in WOL.

Hellokitty actually posted the build on TL if anyone in the thread is wondering what we're all actually talking about.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344421

It was possible to hold it in WOL, but it came down to a lot of micro and decision making on the part of both players.

In HOTS it's a little scarier because of potential hydra defenses which players neglected because you can't counter attack with them afterwards in WOL.
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Posts: 3,501
Actually 7-gate blink all-ins are pretty much a hard counter to muta builds or at least it was in WOL.

I agree this was the case in WoL, although I had a Zerg practice partner that managed to hold an annoying percentage of the time and still run me over with mutas because he had good simcity and good macro. He seemed to prefer 2-base mutas to 3 base, though.

In HOTS it's a little scarier because of potential hydra defenses which players neglected because you can't counter attack with them afterwards in WOL.

Ah, yes.
Edited by BlackAdder on 4/16/2013 2:51 PM PDT
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Posts: 485
surprised a thread about me got through this far, i generally don't hit up the blizzard forums too often but here is my input, you generally can beat greedy zergs and zergs at a higher level than your currently pvz :)
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