Swarmling Handicap

Posts: 380
In at least two missions you are handicapped if you chose the Swarmling upgrade. The whole reason for going swarmling is to get zerglings very fast and to get three instead of two. Ten supply of raptors is 20 and ten supply of swarmlings is 30. But in Old Soldiers and Enemy Within you don’t get that advantage.

To bust the gate in Old Soldiers you are given 111 zerglings and 36 banelings no matter which strain is chosen. If you went the swarmling route you should have 166 lings and 54 banelings. It is the same after the multi-nuke strike you are only given ten zerglings to start out with be it raptor or swarmling. As it is now raptors are better because you don’t have the right number of swarmlings. You are given 50% less to do the same job and it does not get done.

In the Enemy Within Niadra’s spawn is tied to two zerglings per supply not three as with swarmlings. With raptors chosen Niadra gets 8 supply for her first evolution and she can birth 16 zerglings. With swarmlings she is given only 10 and not 12 and the only way to get to full supply is if she can get to 20 zerglings which is 2 zerglings per supply. The math does not add up for the other two evolutions because they keep thinking two zerglings instead of three. They don’t give Niadra 50% more supply.
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Posts: 5,676
Well, the problem is that swarmlings are the inferior choice. If you really don't like getting less zerglings on it, I suggest doing the level on a lower difficulty, then re-doing it on the higher difficulty using the mastery archive with Raptors equipped.

Also, The Editor claims that getting swarmlings does give Niadra more supply at 5/3/2. Granted its not a full 50%, but you have to remember that level 2 and 3 of Niadra also can make Hydras and Roaches, so if you got the full 50% extra then it would be unfair to the person who chose raptors. Also, level 1 Niadra can make Banelings (if you have them), so that can also be exploited with Swarmlings.

As for Old Soldiers, I chose Spawn Banelings over Mend. This means every 30 seconds I get another 6 banelings for free. This is unfair to the person who chose mend.
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Posts: 380
But that is the problem, swarmlings are the inferior choice because you do not get what you pay for. You should not be handicapped because of your choice. Swarmlings do well when you have the right amount. I love getting 54 banelings instead of only 36. When your base is threatened more swarmlings hatch quicker to take care of the threat. That is what I'm trying to point out. With out the 50% increase swarmlings are inferior.
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Posts: 5,676
But that is the problem, swarmlings are the inferior choice because you do not get what you pay for. You should not be handicapped because of your choice. Swarmlings do well when you have the right amount. I love getting 54 banelings instead of only 36. When your base is threatened more swarmlings hatch quicker to take care of the threat. That is what I'm trying to point out. With out the 50% increase swarmlings are inferior.


Hey, if you don't use zerglings then they are the superior choice in Enemy Within, because they give +2/+3/+5 supply to Niadra which you can then use on Banelings/Roaches/Hydralisks, which those with raptors do not get. In addition, Only in the initial push does Old Soldiers have a Raptor advantage, because once the nukes are dropped you get your much faster building swarmlings. Oh and you also get zergling reconstitution in groups of 15 instead of groups of 10.
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Posts: 380
[quote]In addition, Only in the initial push does Old Soldiers have a Raptor advantage,


And that is my point, you should not have an advantage with one strain over the other. You should not have to replay via the archive to negate that advantage. The choice should be according to your play style not which has the better advantage.
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Posts: 420
04/10/2013 02:28 AMPosted by ClifftheBiff
[quote]In addition, Only in the initial push does Old Soldiers have a Raptor advantage,


And that is my point, you should not have an advantage with one strain over the other. You should not have to replay via the archive to negate that advantage. The choice should be according to your play style not which has the better advantage.


To be fair raptor is the superior strain as a large part of zergling damage is surrounding the enemy and hop of raptor allows that to occurs quicker and with less lings lost in the process. Plus if you chose reconstitution swarmling number advantage means less and less.
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Posts: 348
WoL had a lot of moments like this. For example, if you focused on buying mech/ship upgrades and ignored infantry, then the secret mission "Piercing the Shroud" became much harder. Also, if you chose orbital depots over micro-filtering, you were worse off in the two missions that automatically gave you full supply, "Supernova" and "The Gates of Hell".

With that in mind, what's surprising isn't that there's an evolution that is slightly handicapped on certain missions, but that there's only one.

In the end, you'll just have to decide whether being handicapped in 2 missions is worth having an upgrade that suits your playstyle in all the rest. I think most people would agree that it is.
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Posts: 601
It is pointless to argue whether swarmlings or raptors are better, unless you also consider the adaptations used as well as other units you have available.

I tend use swarmlings as cheap damage sponge with +health upgrade. They are also great for emergency base defense and baneling mass production.

If you don't use banelings heavily and have tunneling swarm hosts for rapid base defense then raptors (with damage upgrade) are definitely better.
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Posts: 395
Wait... afaik swarmlings DO take same amount of supply, as raptors, they simply spawn in 3 instead of 2 and are spawned faster, no?
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Posts: 336

To bust the gate in Old Soldiers you are given 111 zerglings and 36 banelings no matter which strain is chosen. If you went the swarmling route you should have 166 lings and 54 banelings.


But the zergling strain only affects zerglings, not banelings...you just want free banelings for nothing? logic fail.
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Posts: 4,308
Don't forget the ling reconstitution revives 10 lings regardless of which strain is chosen.
Like how Noxious Ultras < Torrasque Ultras, It's not even a choice; one of the splits is flat out better in all scenarios.

Swarmling is great if you never use lings, their insta-pop allows you to save expos easily, but else-wise Raptors are always more efficient.

Noxious ultras are always worse than Torrasque, I've found. Torrasque strain makes your ultras, in effect, pop at least two per egg and more if you just keep them alive.
Edited by TornadoXIII on 4/10/2013 2:31 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,050
Both are fun and offer different ways of handling things. While zergling reconstitution may not be the best choice for swarmlings, combining swarmlings with the double drone ability and the overlord buff ability allows for the fielding of a large mass of zerglings VERY quickly.
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Posts: 5,590
Don't forget the ling reconstitution revives 10 lings regardless of which strain is chosen.


Actually this is incorrect, you gain 15 swarmlings.
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Posts: 601
04/10/2013 05:24 PMPosted by Quirriff
Don't forget the ling reconstitution revives 10 lings regardless of which strain is chosen.


Actually this is incorrect, you gain 15 swarmlings.


Even if this is the case, there is not as much of a point as you could just make more in a hurry. Which is actually another benefit of swarmlings. As you don't really need reconstitution you can pick automated extractors instead.
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Posts: 380
Look guys I don't care which is better. I just wanted to point out that I feel I'm getting short changed in any mission where you start out with a given force that contains zerglings. Whether it's 10 or 110, if it's same amount for raptors or swarmlings then you are penalized for choosing swarmlings. If the mission starts with xx supply of zerglings then the amount should reflect the strain you have chosen.

I just want Blizzard to realize that 2 raptors and 3 swarmlings are the same supply.
Edited by ClifftheBiff on 4/10/2013 9:00 PM PDT
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Posts: 601

I just want Blizzard to realize that 2 raptors and 3 swarmlings are the same supply.


I am afraid they did it deliberately:

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Swarmling

Swarmlings are a dirt cheap unit that you can mass produce in hurry... to either plug a hole in your army, or to make a large number of banelings without too much micromanagement. If they also required less supply, they would be OP.

It is ironic that you used "Enemy Within" as an example as swarmlings make it ridiculously easy even on Brutal. Pick the movement speed upgrade and keep mashing "spawn zergling" while in combat. As it takes but a few seconds to replenish your entire squad, it is almost impossible to loose.
Edited by Alex on 4/10/2013 11:03 PM PDT
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Posts: 1,173
Yes, swarmlings are inferior. I'm not sure what you're complaining about... it's not like the mission isn't a breeze with or without raptorlings... I could see blizzard changing it if completing the mission without raptorlings was difficult, but that's not the case.
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Posts: 407
Well actually your pretty much handicapped in every mission by choosing swarmlings. They are almost always the worse choice. The only situations where they could be better is for massing a !@#$ton of banelings and needing the supply space or for last second base defense. The latter really shouldn't be an issue if you plan ahead at all or stay on top of your production.

I'm pretty sure 10 supply of raptors is a lot better than 10 supply of swarmlings. Sure you get 10 more of them but they don't engage as quickly because of the leaping and they do 40% less damage. Only so many lings can attack a target at once its a lot better to have a few less doing more damage than a few extra who may or may not be attacking doing less damage.
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Posts: 1,198

I'm pretty sure 10 supply of raptors is a lot better than 10 supply of swarmlings. Sure you get 10 more of them but they don't engage as quickly because of the leaping and they do 40% less damage. Only so many lings can attack a target at once its a lot better to have a few less doing more damage than a few extra who may or may not be attacking doing less damage.


Incorrect, while raptorlings do 40% more damage than swarmlings, swarmlings do not do 40% less damage than raptorlings. 40% of 5 is 2, 40% of 7 is 2.8, 7-2.8=4.2 not 5.
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Posts: 5,676
Swarmlings have 1 extra advantage over Raptors. With the drop pod ability, Kerrigan drops 5 pods each containing 1 roach, 1 hydra and 8 zerglings (primal strain, so 0 supply, and standard damage. Not affected by your own evolution/mutation choices. Zerglings/Roaches are also slightly tougher). Except, if you choose swarmling, you get 12 zerglings in each pod instead of 8.

This is unfair to the person who chose Raptors.
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