StarCraft® II

-> Request for better story writing in LotV

Posts: 1,924
04/07/2013 12:50 PMPosted by Inprea
That is quite an assumption on your part. You leave a force to blockade a certain path let's say 50 soldiers and three artillery pieces with high ground advantage. That doesn't mean they can stop 500 soldier's from breaking through. You assume that Kerrigan's blockade would have held if she hadn't ordered those worlds taken out of the situation first. It is quite possible that her blockade wouldn't have held. Plus if nothing else you do not want to be fighting a two front war. If she hadn't taken out those worlds it would have been even harder for her to defend.


In my opinion a fleet of leviathans and the flyers naturally accompanying them have a huge advantage against the desperate fleets trying to get back to Korhal , probably in a very unorganized pattern . An advantage 50 soldiers and three artillery pieces wouldn't have against 500 soldiers .

Plus Kerrigan's advantage is made obvious by what she actually said ,,we can sacrifice millions , even if just 1% of our troops make it , it will be more than enough ''

I think the battle for Korhal was more than one sided ...

04/07/2013 12:50 PMPosted by Inprea
You're over simplifying Heart of the Swarm.


Sorry if I did , that was not my intention . But I just don't see any other major plot lines ... Kerrigan finding out Jim is ok and saving him is nothing you could actually call a major plot line , because it's just that short and simple .And although it does bare high emotional value , it's just too simple ...

04/07/2013 12:50 PMPosted by Inprea
Kerrigan didn't immediately take the swarm.


By the same logic , Jim didn't immediately start his revolution , as he said : ,,there is not much you can do with a handful of volunteers and a capital ship ''

It took more than half of the campaign before he actually struck a considerable blow to the dominion , and the complexity in which he did that is much superior to anything we see in Hots .

She doesn't believe the risk is worth it and she has confidence in her and Jim's ability to handle the situation. Unfortunately she doesn't evaluate the situation correctly and ends up losing Jim. This moves her into a transition period in which she begins to reconnect with the swarm but keeps telling herself it's only to save Jim. It's like an addict thinking they'll just take a little sip.

Her resistance is then completely broken whenever she loses her primary support. In a moment of weakness she comes to believe Jim is dead. She suffers a break down and begins the process of regaining control of the swarm. She doesn't just seek to regain the swarm though but seeks to make it even more powerful force.


I simplified this in the same way i simplified WoL . By the same logic Jim had a damn complex journey forging alliances and building an army .

Despite that to me you seem to be over simplifying the situation and ignoring major points.


please point out those points
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If you want a story read some books. Missions are good.


what you just said here is very complex .

Games/Movies and books are very different .

Books give you the chance to be your movie/game director , the book is the movie/game script and you are the director .

Games/Movies are different , they are stiff , they don't adapt to your vision of the world .
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DaveDroid, HardCore,

I presented the TL links (although perhaps I should have re-worded my 'misinformed' statement) to illustrate that not all of TL likes the HotS story telling - DaveDroid's earlier post made it seem as if TL was universally positive on the HotS story telling.

DaveDroid,

Why do you bring in politics? Democrats and Republicans alike are guilty of spinning statistics their way. C'mon, there is no 'absolute' or 'right' side. Your politics statement was silly.

Inprea, HardCore,

Thank you for the good conversation. Inprea, I respect your opinion and agree with some of your points - namely the lack of numbers on my 'friends have agreed with me' point. It's true, I haven't made a huge poll and only asked a few close friends (altogether 4, so my sample size is very small), but what surprised me is that they all, while being very different gamers -- both casual and heavy -- agreed with my disappointment with the HotS story. The thing is, we all liked WoL, we all were disappointed with HotS's story, and we're all very different people. I then went on the forums and found many, many posts from people who thought similarly.

The thing here is not that the story was horrible -- it's just that it was missing elements that could have satisfied people who were not satisfied with it. I almost feel that Blizzard went with the absolute basics for the story to make it carry the necessary minimum weight (facial expression changes, the love story, etc. to me are the minimum required elements for HotS, not 'great' or 'extra' elements) but skimped on the rest. Maybe some people simply expected more than was originally planned for the story? Perhaps I and others who agree are in the minority...but the fact remains that a lot of us seemed to like WoL, which in my opinion had a lot of the basic, necessary elements to make the story stick and then had a lot of additional details for character development and plot twists to make the story interesting, and felt let down by HotS.

I can justify the HotS story all day, but if some people felt let down by it...there is no way around that. Perhaps Blizzard made a conscious decision to not add more elements to the HotS story and thought that the existing material was enough - that's fine, but clearly some people weren't happy. If Blizzard disagrees with us or decides that it doesn't have enough time to flesh out the campaign story more than it already did, that's its decision. My decision, as a fan, is to ask Blizzard to flesh out the campaign a bit more.
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In my opinion a fleet of leviathans and the flyers naturally accompanying them have a huge advantage against the desperate fleets trying to get back to Korhal , probably in a very unorganized pattern . An advantage 50 soldiers and three artillery pieces wouldn't have against 500 soldiers .

Plus Kerrigan's advantage is made obvious by what she actually said ,,we can sacrifice millions , even if just 1% of our troops make it , it will be more than enough ''

I think the battle for Korhal was more than one sided ...


A desperate fleet trying to break through is what they were probably dealing with after those planets were destroyed. The planets were noted as major points of military industry for the dominion. What makes you certain that they would have been unorganized if those facilities would have remained intact? What makes you think that had those planets remained intact they would have been unorganized? It seems quite likely it'd be the opposite. We're talking about sites of military industry which means they're likely a few officers there who could assume command and coordinate.

As for that 1%. That may be what she said but look at what she had to do. If getting that 1% across would have been easy or certain Kerrigan wouldn't have had to become personally involved. The only reason the first drop pod was able to land is because she spear headed the attack. After all Izsha said it herself, "There was so many ways for us to fail."

Yet another issue. How many ships and officers did the dominion lose when those planets were taken or trying to defend them?


please point out those points


I pointed out several. You admit yourself to simplifying though or in other words you're choosing to ignore them. On what grounds do you dismiss those points as too simple?

I also want to mention your comment about Jim not immediately starting his revolution. Neither did Kerrigan. She first had to regain control of the swarm much as Jim first had to build up his finances. Jim said all he had was a handful of marines. Izsha told Kerrigan they were too few in number.
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A desperate fleet trying to break through is what they were probably dealing with after those planets were destroyed. The planets were noted as major points of military industry for the dominion. What makes you certain that they would have been unorganized if those facilities would have remained intact? What makes you think that had those planets remained intact they would have been unorganized? It seems quite likely it'd be the opposite. We're talking about sites of military industry which means they're likely a few officers there who could assume command and coordinate.


First of all , Mengsk's message , how desperate it sounded.

Second it is stated many times during the game that Mengsk pulled back his fleet to defend the core of the dominion , So , using simple logic ... I sincerely doubt he kept much flying around (away from Korhal) , considering an attack on Korhal was imminent

For sure not enough to avoid a fleet of leviathans

04/07/2013 01:34 PMPosted by Inprea
As for that 1%. That may be what she said but look at what she had to do. If getting that 1% across would have been easy or certain Kerrigan wouldn't have had to become personally involved. The only reason the first drop pod was able to land is because she spear headed the attack.


She came there to do business , to sink her claws into Mengsk and his dominion , she wouldn't have missed the chance to do that for anything in the universe . Of course she did it personally , that was the whole idea , it's vengeance ,it's something very personal

And when she said only 1% of her swarm is needed , she probably meant ,,only 1% of the swarm is needed to accompany me''

I pointed out several. You admit yourself to simplifying though or in other words you're choosing to ignore them. On what grounds do you dismiss those points as too simple?

I also want to mention your comment about Jim not immediately starting his revolution. Neither did Kerrigan. She first had to regain control of the swarm much as Jim first had to build up his finances. Jim said all he had was a handful of marines. Izsha told Kerrigan they were too few in number.


I'm trying to answer everything . What i meant with ,,please point those out'' was , point something out if i don't answer to it

And ... i never said ,,immediately'' i just simplified both cases to the essential. You cant say i oversimplifies Hots considering i equally simplified Wol
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A desperate fleet trying to break through is what they were probably dealing with after those planets were destroyed. The planets were noted as major points of military industry for the dominion. What makes you certain that they would have been unorganized if those facilities would have remained intact? What makes you think that had those planets remained intact they would have been unorganized? It seems quite likely it'd be the opposite. We're talking about sites of military industry which means they're likely a few officers there who could assume command and coordinate.

As for that 1%. That may be what she said but look at what she had to do. If getting that 1% across would have been easy or certain Kerrigan wouldn't have had to become personally involved. The only reason the first drop pod was able to land is because she spear headed the attack. After all Izsha said it herself, "There was so many ways for us to fail."

Yet another issue. How many ships and officers did the dominion lose when those planets were taken or trying to defend them?

And yet Raynor was able to pierce Korhal's planetary defenses back in the last game with his tiny band of volunteers.
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And yet Raynor was able to pierce Korhal's planetary defenses back in the last game with his tiny band of volunteers.


I thought of this myself for a while .

The fact is , Kerrigan ordered her swarm NOT TO TOUCH THAT SHIP , for that was her will ...

EDIT : Raynor had an army of mercenary's for the battle
Edited by HardCore on 4/7/2013 2:33 PM PDT
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I thought of this myself for a while .

The fact is , Kerrigan ordered her swarm NOT TO TOUCH THAT SHIP , for that was her will ...

EDIT : Raynor had an army of mercenary's for the battle

I'm talking about Media Blitz in Wings of Liberty. Raynor launched an attack on Augustgrad, and Swann even flew in a Thor with a dropship. Where were all the planetary defense guns back then?
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I'm talking about Media Blitz in Wings of Liberty. Raynor launched an attack on Augustgrad, and Swann even flew in a Thor with a dropship. Where were all the planetary defense guns back then?


ohh , You were talking about Media Blitz , ok ok .

That was a surprise attack , Raynor's raiders smuggled the Odin and everything else onto the planet and then unleashed ,,the wrath of god'' as Tychus would say.

EDIT : going to bed ...
Edited by HardCore on 4/7/2013 2:59 PM PDT
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First of all , Mengsk's message , how desperate it sounded.

Second it is stated many times during the game that Mengsk pulled back his fleet to defend the core of the dominion , So , using simple logic ... I sincerely doubt he kept much flying around (away from Korhal) , considering an attack on Korhal was imminent

For sure not enough to avoid a fleet of leviathans


Well of course they couldn't avoid the leviathans if there was a large fleet. You don't avoid them if you have a large fleet you smash through. Avoidance is for sneak attacks not for slamming an enemy force between intrenched guns (planetary defenses) and war ships. As for Mengsk's message. You remember that message came after those production planets had been destroyed. Their destruction could have been vital in breaking his defenses and draining resources.

Now I don't remember for certain. Where does it show when Mengsk began pulling back all his forces? As if he did it after those production planets had been leveled then there is no saying he had pulled his ships back from them.

Now if Blizzard would just tell us what the production output of those worlds were, how strong of a standing army they had and ships this would all be much easier to settle.


She came there to do business , to sink her claws into Mengsk and his dominion , she wouldn't have missed the chance to do that for anything in the universe . Of course she did it personally , that was the whole idea , it's vengeance ,it's something very personal

And when she said only 1% of her swarm is needed , she probably meant ,,only 1% of the swarm is needed to accompany me''


I don't agree but I find the evidence under whelming. The strongest evidence I can offer for my case is about three things. The first would be Izsha's statement about how many ways they could have failed in the attack and her utter amazement. To me that suggest there was a real chance at failure however I also see Izsha's mental state as a little child like so one might say she's easily impressed.

Stronger evidence I believe is the first drop pod we see land and how quickly the dominion kills it. They hand the area too locked down thanks to the decision to land the swarm outside of the city. Each one of the pods would have been destroyed without Kerrigan's aid and indeed you couldn't even set up a base if she hadn't purged the first one. The planetary were strong enough to defend against the swarm itself but Kerrigan tipped things in the swarms favor.

How close that battle was thus depends on how much "weight" to give Kerrigan as a military unit.

The final and probably the weakest evidence is from the cut scene in which we see a great many drop pods but we also see a great many drop pods being destroyed in orbit. For me this suggest that they had the fire power to hold the line and Kerrigan couldn't afford a two front war.


I'm trying to answer everything . What i meant with ,,please point those out'' was , point something out if i don't answer to it

And ... i never said ,,immediately'' i just simplified both cases to the essential. You cant say i oversimplifies Hots considering i equally simplified Wol


My mistake I miss understood. Now what do you have as evidence to support that you simplified them equally? We each have our own preferences and an extremely important fact to me may be easily ignored by you. I am for example a very microcosm focused person. I care far more about the individual characters and their development then the overall frame work of that setting.
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ohh , You were talking about Media Blitz , ok ok .

That was a surprise attack , Raynor's raiders smuggled the Odin and everything else onto the planet and then unleashed ,,the wrath of god'' as Tychus would say.

EDIT : going to bed ...

Swann sends his dropship after the Odin raid when the Dominion figures out what's going on. This implies that there are no orbital defenses. There is no way Raynor snuck a Command Center, a bunch of Thors, and the rest of his army in. And this has nothing to do with gameplay/story segregation; the Command Center and Thors are explicitly mentioned in dialog.
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ohh , You were talking about Media Blitz , ok ok .

That was a surprise attack , Raynor's raiders smuggled the Odin and everything else onto the planet and then unleashed ,,the wrath of god'' as Tychus would say.

EDIT : going to bed ...

Swann sends his dropship after the Odin raid when the Dominion figures out what's going on. This implies that there are no orbital defenses. There is no way Raynor snuck a Command Center, a bunch of Thors, and the rest of his army in. And this has nothing to do with gameplay/story segregation; the Command Center and Thors are explicitly mentioned in dialog.


When the Odin raid began, the orbital ships were recalled to the city. Like matt says, that is when they will throw everything they have at the Odin. Of course, you are supposed to leave (without the Odin) before they get there.
Edited by Brathearon on 4/7/2013 6:05 PM PDT
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I enjoyed the story, and I respect that some people didn't. I seriously dislike the way DaveDroid chose to disagree and argue with the OP. You guys have spent a lot of energy and page-space feeding the troll.

Those of us who have actually been in love know that there's nothing noble about seeking to redeem and incessantly forgive a mass-murdering psycho b1tch who killed your best friend.


That isn't a fair assessment of Kerrigan. Kerrigan =/= Infested Kerrigan. They are not the same person. If she had chosen that path, that would have been another story. But she never had a choice in the matter until she took over the Swarm again after being made human culminating in her becoming Primal. Even still, Primal Kerrigan =/= Infested Kerrigan.
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04/07/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Inprea
Well of course they couldn't avoid the leviathans if there was a large fleet. You don't avoid them if you have a large fleet you smash through. Avoidance is for sneak attacks not for slamming an enemy force between intrenched guns (planetary defenses) and war ships. As for Mengsk's message. You remember that message came after those production planets had been destroyed. Their destruction could have been vital in breaking his defenses and draining resources.


What you just said would be purely impossible , A fleet of battlecruisers would have to be huge to take on a fleet of leviathans (and the huge number of flyers accompanying them)

Certainly Mengsk did not have a huge fleet just laying around (away from Korhal) when the attack on Korhal was imminent

Besides that , I don't see what those production facilities would have helped Mengsk with , Korhal was taken in blitzkrieg . This wasn't an attrition war , not by far . And I for one , don't think those facilities would have produced a huge fleet in a couple of days

And ... about Mengsk's message , the fact that he was desperate might have had something to do with the fact the second largest dominion force in the universe was obliterated not long ago (the one guarding those hybrid research laboratory's) , Warfield's force has been destroyed as well (after losing a bc fleet in a moment of strategical stupidity i will never understand) and all this happened after Valerian took a big chunk from Mengsk's fleet and joined Jim's rebellion .... so yeah , the fact that he lost a few production facilities was the least of his problems

04/07/2013 03:13 PMPosted by Inprea
Now I don't remember for certain. Where does it show when Mengsk began pulling back all his forces?


In the start of the WoL campaign it is stated many times that Mengsk pulled back everything he had to defend the core of the dominion , and this was before half of his fleet was taken by Valerian and probably more lost in the Hots campaign ...

If he was so desperate when he had a huge fleet , I have no doubt he was twice as desperate when he had less that half of what he used to

+ he was doing that right when Kerrigan surprised him

I don't agree but I find the evidence under whelming. The strongest evidence I can offer for my case is about three things. The first would be Izsha's statement about how many ways they could have failed in the attack and her utter amazement. To me that suggest there was a real chance at failure however I also see Izsha's mental state as a little child like so one might say she's easily impressed.


In my opinion what Izsha said has no importance , she is just a secretary ...

Zagara on the other hand was convinced that Kerrigan would succeed (quote from her ,,the terrans have no chance'') , and consider Zagara is no secretary ... she is , I would say , a veteran in the art of war , and she has learned from Kerrigan herself (after suffering intense mental evolutions) . And she may just be the daughter of Kerrigan ...

Stronger evidence I believe is the first drop pod we see land and how quickly the dominion kills it. They hand the area too locked down thanks to the decision to land the swarm outside of the city. Each one of the pods would have been destroyed without Kerrigan's aid and indeed you couldn't even set up a base if she hadn't purged the first one. The planetary were strong enough to defend against the swarm itself but Kerrigan tipped things in the swarms favor.

How close that battle was thus depends on how much "weight" to give Kerrigan as a military unit.


As I explained from the start , it was obvious Kerrigan would land and start hacking at the dominion herself . This has nothing to do with how difficult this battle was going to be , she was going to be there anyways . And , you cant assume that mission wouldn't have been completed without Kerrigan , Kerrigan was a living god , she probably did that herself so large numbers of zerg could be concentrated elsewhere ...

The final and probably the weakest evidence is from the cut scene in which we see a great many drop pods but we also see a great many drop pods being destroyed in orbit. For me this suggest that they had the fire power to hold the line and Kerrigan couldn't afford a two front war.


First of all , you are presuming (in total lack of evidence) that this was going to be a two war front ... there is no proof Mengsk had anything to even dare challenge the leviathan blockade . As I said earlier ,the dominion forces have first been cut in half , then lowered even further by Kerrigan's previous assaults ...

And what we saw in that cut scene was probably the first wave of zerg drop pods .... consider the drop pods probably rained down for hours , maybe days .
Edited by HardCore on 4/8/2013 6:34 AM PDT
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I care far more about the individual characters and their development then the overall frame work of that setting.


And I truly respect that , I am sorry if I made myself hard to understand .It is obvious that different people see different situations in different ways
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What you just said would be purely impossible , A fleet of battlecruisers would have to be huge to take on a fleet of leviathans (and the huge number of flyers accompanying them)

Certainly Mengsk did not have a huge fleet just laying around (away from Korhal) when the attack on Korhal was imminent

Besides that , I don't see what those production facilities would have helped Mengsk with , Korhal was taken in blitzkrieg . This wasn't an attrition war , not by far . And I for one , don't think those facilities would have produced a huge fleet in a couple of days

And ... about Mengsk's message , the fact that he was desperate might have had something to do with the fact the second largest dominion force in the universe was obliterated not long ago (the one guarding those hybrid research laboratory's) , Warfield's force has been destroyed as well (after losing a bc fleet in a moment of strategical stupidity i will never understand) and all this happened after Valerian took a big chunk from Mengsk's fleet and joined Jim's rebellion .... so yeah , the fact that he lost a few production facilities was the least of his problems


What values are you using to determine that it would be impossible? As without any statistics to back your claim of impossibility up you're just stating an opinion. Now when the actual attack began on Korhal it happened very quickly. There is however a time gap between when Kerrigan ordered their destruction and their fall. How quickly are now warships produced in the Starcraft universe and how much time had passed between the two events?

It is also possible that the chunk of ships warfield lost was what remained of Valerian's forces. That and you also need to take into account the Zerg had lost a lot of forces to. It's mentioned that once Kerrigan was removed from control the zerg began infighting. Plus how many zerg forces were destroyed the moment that relic went critical? Now clearly it didn't hit the entire planet but it also had a very wide range.

As for Warfield's tactics. There is historic events that support his behavior. It's not beyond the realm of reason. One struggle was the USA converting from Battleships to aircraft carriers. Despite numerous demonstrations of the aircraft carriers superiority as a weapons platform many going into world war 2 believed that battleships were the way to go. This also happened the USA's refusal to switch from large heavy shells to smaller lighter faster firing ammunition. I could go on but suffice to say history is full of well trained, experience generals who became trapped in a certain mind set and method and couldn't adapt.


In the start of the WoL campaign it is stated many times that Mengsk pulled back everything he had to defend the core of the dominion , and this was before half of his fleet was taken by Valerian and probably more lost in the Hots campaign ...

If he was so desperate when he had a huge fleet , I have no doubt he was twice as desperate when he had less that half of what he used to

+ he was doing that right when Kerrigan surprised him


Is there any evidence that he didn't redistribute his fleet after Kerrigan was removed from her leadership of the swarm? Also as I recall it said core worlds. I'm pretty certain that major manufacturing worlds would be core worlds. That would actually support the notion that there would have been a defensive fleet at those worlds.
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In my opinion what Izsha said has no importance , she is just a secretary ...

Zagara on the other hand was convinced that Kerrigan would succeed (quote from her ,,the terrans have no chance'') , and consider Zagara is no secretary ... she is , I would say , a veteran in the art of war , and she has learned from Kerrigan herself (after suffering intense mental evolutions) . And she may just be the daughter of Kerrigan ...


Yet Kerrigan had to repeatedly warn Zagara about the danger the terrans represented. While you don't put any trust in what Izsha Zagara strikes me as over confident. As Zagara said it herself. She still has much to learn from Kerrigan. A secretary can know far more about what's going on then most realize. A lot of information goes across their desk.


As I explained from the start , it was obvious Kerrigan would land and start hacking at the dominion herself . This has nothing to do with how difficult this battle was going to be , she was going to be there anyways . And , you cant assume that mission wouldn't have been completed without Kerrigan , Kerrigan was a living god , she probably did that herself so large numbers of zerg could be concentrated elsewhere ...


What evidence do you have of these other phantom zerg? I'm going by what we saw and each drop pod that came down would have been destroyed without Kerrigan. The very first one before her arrival was destroyed immediately. Plus the location where the starting hive is set up is first purged by her. Given that the zerg couldn't even hold any ground until she became involved it seems quite clear to me that she was essential.


First of all , you are presuming (in total lack of evidence) that this was going to be a two war front ... there is no proof Mengsk had anything to even dare challenge the leviathan blockade . As I said earlier ,the dominion forces have first been cut in half , then lowered even further by Kerrigan's previous assaults …

And what we saw in that cut scene was probably the first wave of zerg drop pods .... consider the drop pods probably rained down for hours , maybe days .


No. I'm saying that if Kerrigan hadn't taken out those production worlds it would have been a two front war. If Mengsk didn't have anything to challenge the blockade the blockade wouldn't have been needed. You're also neglecting how many ships would have been produced or repaired at the before mentioned manufacturing world during that time and the losses the zerg suffered while they were leaderless.
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Posts: 260
Dear Blizzard,

Though I'm not a fanboi who loves EVERYTHING you do (panda bears? really?) I thoroughly enjoyed the full campaign of both WOL and HOTS. WOL had more filler being the main game, whereas HOTS was more streamlined.

The cutscenes have generated awe, the dialog has prompted both laughter and sadness, and the plot has given me both curiosity during and satisfaction at the ending.

Please keep up the good work, despite threads like this one.

If, however, you are prepared to make a full campaign with decision trees and alternate dialog that might take 10 years instead of 3, perhaps you can fulfill the OP's wish. It will come at the cost of my own wish, however, to seeLOTV released in a timely fashion.
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04/08/2013 08:15 AMPosted by Inprea
What values are you using to determine that it would be impossible?


A huge fleet of battlecruisers would be needed to take on a pack of leviathans .... I already said this ...

04/08/2013 08:15 AMPosted by Inprea
There is however a time gap between when Kerrigan ordered their destruction and their fall. How quickly are now warships produced in the Starcraft universe and how much time had passed between the two events?


Most likely a couple of days passed between events ...

I'd imagine battlecruisers are considerably hard to make (and expensive) ... and I doubt those facilities could spamm tens of bc's in a couple of days (enough to take on the leviathans and the swarm)

04/08/2013 08:15 AMPosted by Inprea
It is also possible that the chunk of ships warfield lost was what remained of Valerian's forces.


Possible but highly unlikely in my opinion . It would be stupid of Valerian to not take his part of the fleet with him ... if not anything else , at least as leverage ... (+ In the Hots campaign we see he has the resources to take care of a considerably big fleet)

And I doubt Valerian is stupid , he seems an educated man , and he seems to have gathered a bit of experience after 2/3 of the second great war ....

04/08/2013 08:15 AMPosted by Inprea
That and you also need to take into account the Zerg had lost a lot of forces to. It's mentioned that once Kerrigan was removed from control the zerg began infighting. Plus how many zerg forces were destroyed the moment that relic went critical? Now clearly it didn't hit the entire planet but it also had a very wide range.


Again , Kerrigan said she needs just 1% of her forces to do this ... And I doubt this was only overconfidence .

As for Warfield's tactics. There is historic events that support his behavior. It's not beyond the realm of reason. One struggle was the USA converting from Battleships to aircraft carriers. Despite numerous demonstrations of the aircraft carriers superiority as a weapons platform many going into world war 2 believed that battleships were the way to go. This also happened the USA's refusal to switch from large heavy shells to smaller lighter faster firing ammunition. I could go on but suffice to say history is full of well trained, experience generals who became trapped in a certain mind set and method and couldn't adapt.


What Warfield did was throw a fleet of capital ships , one after another , into swarms of scourge ... This is pure incompetence (lol , he also failed hard when he tried to invade char)

He is supposed to be an experienced general , but he does amateur mistakes (what he did is the equivalent of me sending a ton of bc's one after another to attack 20 sporecrawlers)
And he kept on going ... losing ,and losing the same god damn way ....

I would have understood one strategical mistake that only added to his experience ... but seriously , doing the same mistake over and over and over again (when it's obvious what ur doing had no chance of working) ...

Erwin Rommel (one of the most brilliant minds of the Second World War) himself did some really stupid attacks on heavily fortified bunkers during the battle for Africa ... and then he never made those mistakes again , ever ....

Is there any evidence that he didn't redistribute his fleet after Kerrigan was removed from her leadership of the swarm? Also as I recall it said core worlds. I'm pretty certain that major manufacturing worlds would be core worlds. That would actually support the notion that there would have been a defensive fleet at those worlds.


Regardless if he did or not , Kerrigan surprised him screaming ,,EVERYONE COME BACK SO I CAN HIND BEHIND YOU'' ... he was probably doing it for a while now (It was the most obvious thing that Kerrigan was going to move on Korhal any second now , mostly after she broke Jim lose ...)
So probably most of Mengsk's fleet must have been on Korhal (what he had left of it ... probably less than 1/3 of what he did when the second great war started)
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Yet Kerrigan had to repeatedly warn Zagara about the danger the terrans represented. While you don't put any trust in what Izsha Zagara strikes me as over confident. As Zagara said it herself. She still has much to learn from Kerrigan. A secretary can know far more about what's going on then most realize. A lot of information goes across their desk.


Haha , at the moment I am reading the book ,,12 years with Hitler'' (Hitler's secretary talks in detail about him and the war ... )

But try to look from my point of view ?

Izsha has no military experience and has an infantile mentality that has been proven wrong many times during the campaign ... - fact

Zagara has much military experience and is a highly evolved (intelligent) brood mother ... (tho you are right ,she does tend to grow ... overconfident , although that may just be excitement ) -fact

Izsha has a correct strategical point of view - presumption

What evidence do you have of these other phantom zerg? I'm going by what we saw and each drop pod that came down would have been destroyed without Kerrigan. The very first one before her arrival was destroyed immediately. Plus the location where the starting hive is set up is first purged by her. Given that the zerg couldn't even hold any ground until she became involved it seems quite clear to me that she was essential.


Uhhh we see large numbers of zerg dropping in pods after Kerrigan destroys the gates of Korhal . Those army's could have stopped and helped her finish the job ... but they didn't , they moved on Korhal ... If Kerrigan would have been in any true difficulty she would have requested help ... but she wasn't , she was actually helping her swarm ... This is what I meant

No. I'm saying that if Kerrigan hadn't taken out those production worlds it would have been a two front war. If Mengsk didn't have anything to challenge the blockade the blockade wouldn't have been needed. You're also neglecting how many ships would have been produced or repaired at the before mentioned manufacturing world during that time and the losses the zerg suffered while they were leaderless.


She made that blocade so that transport ship's loaded with troops , equipment and resources wouldn't be able to pass ... Cutting your enemy's supply rout , it's a basic war tactic .

Again I doubt those planets would have produced enough Battlecruisers to challenge a pack of leviathans ... And you don't even know what kind of ships those worlds were producing ? maybe 80% of their production was made of transport ships , vikings , medivacs , etc

In my opinion those worlds were burned for no reason .

EDIT : brb in a few hours
Edited by HardCore on 4/8/2013 12:43 PM PDT
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