StarCraft® II

Balance test map?

Developer
Posts: 139
Hello everyone~

We're currently thinking of trying out a couple changes just on a balance test map in a couple weeks or so. We're not looking to do any major changes because the game is in a fairly solid state but just wanted to give a heads up on our current thinking in order to get your feedback.

Main thing we're hoping to address soon is the ling/muta strategy in ZvZ. We heard your feedback on changes such as Hydralisk AA damage increase, but we'd like to go smaller in changes if possible. For example, if we increase the +bio damage on Spore Crawlers, it would only affect the ZvZ matchup which is a very small change even if we go big on the +bio damage value.

The hope here is to have more Infestors come into play in the mass Muta on Muta battles and/or bring the fight more so to the ground because it'll be more easily possible to stay on the ground due to less resources on defense needed to fend off Mutalisk attacks.

Of course ZvZ or any other matchup can change completely in the next weeks, but as of now we think this is the biggest issue in HotS.

A few other things we're thinking on but are really not even close to final on are:
1. Oracle movement speed increase
To really reward high skilled usage of Oracles. Even when air units are in play, it could be possible for the highest end players to perfectly use Oracles without losing them.

2. Burrow cost and/or research time down
Towards the beginning of HotS, early burrow attacks showed some decent potential but we never see it anymore. We thought this variety in opening especially on the Zerg that usually play a defensive early game was cool. So we're wondering how early game Zerg can evolve if we made early game attacks using burrow more effective.

As always, nothing is final at this point, but just wanted to give an update on our current thoughts. Please let us know what you think and as always in a live game, we will definitely take our time to evaluate everything before making any moves.
Posts: 3,771
<3

04/22/2013 05:10 PMPosted by Dayvie
1. Oracle movement speed increase


i do like this, it improves the survivability a bit so they can be used better in mid game.
Edited by PermaFrost on 4/22/2013 5:12 PM PDT
Posts: 8,360
Sounds pretty good! Good to see you guys using a very slow and meticulous process here, keep up the great work.
Posts: 3,343
04/22/2013 05:10 PMPosted by Dayvie
1. Oracle movement speed increase


But my poor marines :(

2. Burrow cost and/or research time down


Could make for some overpowered ZvT timings before the Terran can safely get detection, but I wouldn't say it's imbalanced.

Nothing too drastic, but I feel like it might make timings against Terran slightly too strong.
Posts: 8,326
I'm actually really happy blizz is not nerfing anything and going to buff units instead this is a really good idea.
Posts: 4,508
Love to see the progress towards making the game better!

+1

Edit: MetalGear has the right idea too, I'd like to see more buffs to other units rather the. Nerfs that would make the game stale ^_^
Edited by Chaz on 4/22/2013 5:16 PM PDT
Posts: 4,552
Proxy oracle already hurts enough... But a buff is better than a nerf and I'll just adapt to the change. And hopefully we'll see more burrowed banelings, which aren't used nearly enough.
Edited by FinnTheHuman on 4/22/2013 5:17 PM PDT
Posts: 851
Would love to see a hydra buff to deal with muta vs muta, but it's good to see they're looking into the issue.
Posts: 1,215
I like it!
Posts: 457
The +bio damage on spores does not stop the muta wars at all, it just turns into turtle muta wars when the players have enough mutalisks to 1 shot the spores. There needs to be a different solution then the spore crawler. Making the spore crawler stronger against mutalisks just makes it worse because then you are relying on static defense and lose all map control and can only hurt the mutalisks when they come into your base. Letting the mutalisk player take extra bases without having to attack until he wants to. It also hurts drop play in ZvZ because of how fast the spore crawlers are now killing overlords because of the bio tag.
Posts: 7,666
For example, if we increase the +bio damage on Spore Crawlers, it would only affect the ZvZ matchup which is a very small change even if we go big on the +bio damage value.


This will in no way stop the Muta wars from dominating. They will still have map control over every other strategy, and eventually Mutas can one shot spores, making Spore damage output negligible.

Nothing you are thinking about feels like it has any connection with the trouble people are having. Burrow is not an Issue, Oracles have been doing just fine in the hands of skilled players, and SkyTOss doesn't need anymore buffs.

I'm concerned Blizzard, stop fiddling with things that don't need fiddling, you'll only destablize the game and end up not fixing any of the core issues.
Posts: 7,572
1. Oracle movement speed increase
To really reward high skilled usage of Oracles. Even when air units are in play, it could be possible for the highest end players to perfectly use Oracles without losing them.
Ehhh. I'm not the biggest fan of it, perhaps make it an upgrade at the Fleet Beacon?

2. Burrow cost and/or research time down
Towards the beginning of HotS, early burrow attacks showed some decent potential but we never see it anymore. We thought this variety in opening especially on the Zerg that usually play a defensive early game was cool. So we're wondering how early game Zerg can evolve if we made early game attacks using burrow more effective.
I'm all for this change. I feel like early burrow plays can be really fun to watch.
Posts: 65
What about terran's mech?
TvZ mech in completely not viable...
Swarmhost+Hydra...

I am forced to go Bio.. I never bio btw TT
Posts: 22,332
perhaps consider giving hydras a small + to bio? it will make them more useful in all MUs, but especially ZvZ
Posts: 8,326
More early game all ins, isn't going to help the state of Muta wars ZvZ......


Reading FAIL they are buffing hydras as well.
Posts: 449
Hello everyone~

We're currently thinking of trying out a couple changes just on a balance test map in a couple weeks or so. We're not looking to do any major changes because the game is in a fairly solid state but just wanted to give a heads up on our current thinking in order to get your feedback.

Main thing we're hoping to address soon is the ling/muta strategy in ZvZ. We heard your feedback on changes such as Hydralisk AA damage increase, but we'd like to go smaller in changes if possible. For example, if we increase the +bio damage on Spore Crawlers, it would only affect the ZvZ matchup which is a very small change even if we go big on the +bio damage value.

The hope here is to have more Infestors come into play in the mass Muta on Muta battles and/or bring the fight more so to the ground because it'll be more easily possible to stay on the ground due to less resources on defense needed to fend off Mutalisk attacks.

Of course ZvZ or any other matchup can change completely in the next weeks, but as of now we think this is the biggest issue in HotS.

A few other things we're thinking on but are really not even close to final on are:
1. Oracle movement speed increase
To really reward high skilled usage of Oracles. Even when air units are in play, it could be possible for the highest end players to perfectly use Oracles without losing them.

2. Burrow cost and/or research time down
Towards the beginning of HotS, early burrow attacks showed some decent potential but we never see it anymore. We thought this variety in opening especially on the Zerg that usually play a defensive early game was cool. So we're wondering how early game Zerg can evolve if we made early game attacks using burrow more effective.

As always, nothing is final at this point, but just wanted to give an update on our current thoughts. Please let us know what you think and as always in a live game, we will definitely take our time to evaluate everything before making any moves.


So, 2 more buffs for zerg, even though 1 is ZvZ only....

I agree with the spore in zvz or nerf muta, but the burrow no way, why should Z get free expansions and invis units that regenerate health? It's hard enough to macro up with a zerg pecking at you ALL the time.. just no.
Posts: 4,552
Maybe buffing Zerg drops would be better. I see ROOTCatZ do Roach or Hydra drops all of the time. I don't mean doom drops, but he drops like, 6 roaches and micros them like Terran players do with their drops.

What about terran's mech?
TvZ mech in completely not viable...
Swarmhost+Hydra...

I am forced to go Bio.. I never bio btw TT


lol l2Raven
Edited by FinnTheHuman on 4/22/2013 5:23 PM PDT
Posts: 7,725
What about terran's mech?
TvZ mech in completely not viable...
Swarmhost+Hydra...

I am forced to go Bio.. I never bio btw TT


T_T

Well, in due time hopefully we can get some answers.

But zvz is pretty f'ed right now haah.
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