StarCraft® II

What's going to happen to Ghost Program...

05/10/2013 07:25 PMPosted by Alex


Yeah with Flashpoint it was annoying that Valerian got manipulated by Narud so easily. I wonder why he didn't find out that Narud was actually some ancient shapeshifter.


Because Narud have been doing this sort of thing for thousands of years?


Yeah but it's never explained how often Narud had interacted with the terrans.
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That wasn't risk. If anyone understand using an enemy while pretending to be their ally it's Arcturus. Se when Valerian "Arthas" says he wants to prove himself a worthy successor I take that as part of the package.


In Flashpoint he refused to turn Kerrigan over even though Mengsk had twice as many battle cruisers as he did and the one Mengsk was using hadn't been damaged fighting the Zerg. Even though Mengsk gave him the chance to. Once they arrive at Deadman's port he abandoned his bodyguard and tries to blind in along with Matt while they set up a covert meeting and when Narub betrays them he fights alongside Raynor to help rescue Kerrigan and later beside Kerrigan and Raynor in an attempt to recover the artifact. During these high risk situations he stayed with them instead of turning tail and running or taking the deal Mengsk offered.


There is no scene showing him good at any combat, in fact. That he can't directly offer use in battle is why he's using those who can. You'll notice that he's not terribly broken up about the loss of General Warfield at the hands of Kerrigan.


I'm not just relying on the game. It's from Flashpoint Valerian disarms a group of street thugs using hand to hand combat to avoid killing anyone while Matt was prepared to go for his side arm. He also proves himself to a lesser extent while fighting some marines alongside Kerrigan and Jim. Given that he's a Mengsk Valerian has been in constant danger of assassination for quite some time and has learned to defend himself rather then always relying on others.


There's no evidence he was duped. Given his own machinations, it's more likely he used Narud thinking that he could have the hybrids for himself or at the least curry favor with Amon.


There is plenty of it in Flashpoint considering that Narud betrays Raynor and Valerian during dinner at his station attempting to have them both killed. As mentioned above Valerian then fights alongside Raynor in an attempt to rescue Kerrigan and then later to recover the artifact. As long as you're relying on the game alone you are missing a lot of information about Valerian.


Nothing Blizzard screws up surprises me. They don't bother with good storyboard writers, and they hit their peak with the Mira Han comedy routines.


That is your opinion and you're entitled to it. The game's story got me interested enough that I chose to learn more of it and bought a few of their books. Clearly I rather enjoyed the characters.


The problem with third party storylines, comic books in particular, is that Blizzard reserves the right to disregard all those stories contain, and they've done that before.
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In Flashpoint he refused to turn Kerrigan over even though Mengsk had twice as many battle cruisers as he did and the one Mengsk was using hadn't been damaged fighting the Zerg. Even though Mengsk gave him the chance to. Once they arrive at Deadman's port he abandoned his bodyguard and tries to blind in along with Matt while they set up a covert meeting and when Narub betrays them he fights alongside Raynor to help rescue Kerrigan and later beside Kerrigan and Raynor in an attempt to recover the artifact. During these high risk situations he stayed with them instead of turning tail and running or taking the deal Mengsk offered.



I'm not just relying on the game. It's from Flashpoint Valerian disarms a group of street thugs using hand to hand combat to avoid killing anyone while Matt was prepared to go for his side arm. He also proves himself to a lesser extent while fighting some marines alongside Kerrigan and Jim. Given that he's a Mengsk Valerian has been in constant danger of assassination for quite some time and has learned to defend himself rather then always relying on others.



There is plenty of it in Flashpoint considering that Narud betrays Raynor and Valerian during dinner at his station attempting to have them both killed. As mentioned above Valerian then fights alongside Raynor in an attempt to rescue Kerrigan and then later to recover the artifact. As long as you're relying on the game alone you are missing a lot of information about Valerian.



That is your opinion and you're entitled to it. The game's story got me interested enough that I chose to learn more of it and bought a few of their books. Clearly I rather enjoyed the characters.


The problem with third party storylines, comic books in particular, is that Blizzard reserves the right to disregard all those stories contain, and they've done that before.


This is why so many lore fans point out inconsistency problems...
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The problem with third party storylines, comic books in particular, is that Blizzard reserves the right to disregard all those stories contain, and they've done that before.


From what people have mentioned of retcons they also reserve the right to disregard what happened in previous games and even change the events. So I don't see how that could be a valid reason to ignore the books when they do it to the games just as well.
Edited by Inprea on 5/11/2013 4:44 AM PDT
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The problem with third party storylines, comic books in particular, is that Blizzard reserves the right to disregard all those stories contain, and they've done that before.


From what people have mentioned of retcons they also reserve the right to disregard what happened in previous games and even change the events. So I don't see how that could be a valid reason to ignore the books when they do it to the games just as well.


Well what books have they ignored?
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From what people have mentioned of retcons they also reserve the right to disregard what happened in previous games and even change the events. So I don't see how that could be a valid reason to ignore the books when they do it to the games just as well.


Well what books have they ignored?


Beats me. I'm just responding to the notion that the books are some how an invalid source of information. A notion I disagree with.
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Well what books have they ignored?


Beats me. I'm just responding to the notion that the books are some how an invalid source of information. A notion I disagree with.


Well the Queen of Blades book certainly was...
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The problem with third party storylines, comic books in particular, is that Blizzard reserves the right to disregard all those stories contain, and they've done that before.


From what people have mentioned of retcons they also reserve the right to disregard what happened in previous games and even change the events. So I don't see how that could be a valid reason to ignore the books when they do it to the games just as well.


The difference is the company itself changing the storyline as opposed to third party writers acting outside of Blizzard's own storyboard people. As bad as some of the game's stories are, the books and comics seemed to have been worse. The protoss in these story seemed to act just like humans, when there should be a sense of alienness to them. That feel is entirely lost when you read of a protoss ship crew.

And then there's the fact that key terran characters seem entirely different in the third party stories from who they are in the game. I don't mind crap plot or poor character development in the game, because I'm not interested in killing people and breaking things. I'll just run my own plot in my head as I play, sometimes even a non-Starcraft story. But I have no compulsion to read out-of-game Starcraft stories. Even the ones posted here on the website were boring and unimaginative.
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The difference is the company itself changing the storyline as opposed to third party writers acting outside of Blizzard's own storyboard people. As bad as some of the game's stories are, the books and comics seemed to have been worse. The protoss in these story seemed to act just like humans, when there should be a sense of alienness to them. That feel is entirely lost when you read of a protoss ship crew.

And then there's the fact that key terran characters seem entirely different in the third party stories from who they are in the game. I don't mind crap plot or poor character development in the game, because I'm not interested in killing people and breaking things. I'll just run my own plot in my head as I play, sometimes even a non-Starcraft story. But I have no compulsion to read out-of-game Starcraft stories. Even the ones posted here on the website were boring and unimaginative.


How you believe the protoss should feel isn't relevant. Blizzard is the ones who granted the writer's permission to write the books and until something is done to invalidate the information such as a retcon they can be used to obtain information on the characters. This is much the same with the game. People believed that Zerus was apparently a volcanic world and had been left lifeless. HoTS arrives and it's tropical covered with live as apparently some life forms managed to remain hidden. So now the notion that Zerus was left lifeless despite what the manual said is just wrong. It's a story after all and we have to live with the changes the owners of it make.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the books are bad either or most people dislike them. The reviews I found for Flashpoint were quite good. You choose what you read and what you spend your money on but that doesn't invalidate the information contained within the books.

It sounds like you tend to make up your own story if you're running your own plot. If you're running your own plot though and ignoring information about the characters I don't see how you could possibly evaluate them correctly.
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05/12/2013 05:56 AMPosted by Inprea
So now the notion that Zerus was left lifeless despite what the manual said is just wrong.


Yeah Blizzard would probably have to explain that it was only THOUGHT that Zerus was left lifeless, but it wasn't.
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05/12/2013 05:56 AMPosted by Inprea
How you believe the protoss should feel isn't relevant.


If Blizzard wants to do half-@$$ed storytelling that's their business, true. However, if there's going to be talk of how wonderful the story has been, then it's perfectly fair and accurate for me to point out that in fact the writing of the protoss characters was pretty shoddy.

Blizzard is the ones who granted the writer's permission to write the books and until something is done to invalidate the information such as a retcon they can be used to obtain information on the characters.


It was a gamble on their part, which they've done before. However, when they find that the third party writers do worse than their own storyboard people they then remove the story from the game's plot.

This is much the same with the game. People believed that Zerus was apparently a volcanic world and had been left lifeless. HoTS arrives and it's tropical covered with live as apparently some life forms managed to remain hidden.


I'd chalk that up to a timeline issue. Zerus might've gone through a mass extinction event, been rendered nearly liveless, and then bounced back.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the books are bad either or most people dislike them.


They just chose crappy writers is all. The comics pretty much all suck, and that's just the nature of comics in general. Very rarely do you see a comic story that's better than novels, and good enough that movie makers don't feel the need to change it.

It sounds like you tend to make up your own story if you're running your own plot.


In a game with $#!tty plot, yes I do. However, I first acknowledge the one it already has when playing it through the first couple times.

If you're running your own plot though and ignoring information about the characters I don't see how you could possibly evaluate them correctly.


Ah yes, yes I could. I write stories for a living.
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05/12/2013 12:41 PMPosted by ragnarok
So now the notion that Zerus was left lifeless despite what the manual said is just wrong.


Yeah Blizzard would probably have to explain that it was only THOUGHT that Zerus was left lifeless, but it wasn't.


An ecology recovering from a mass extinction event, where zerg leaving and maybe other aliens, thought it was lifeless. That's an easy fix.
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If Blizzard wants to do half-@$$ed storytelling that's their business, true. However, if there's going to be talk of how wonderful the story has been, then it's perfectly fair and accurate for me to point out that in fact the writing of the protoss characters was pretty shoddy.


You may think it's shoddy but that doesn't by any means make it a fact it's just your opinion. If the story inspires interest in the protoss and therefore starcraft as well as thought I would say it was an effective story even if I dislike the content.

It was a gamble on their part, which they've done before. However, when they find that the third party writers do worse than their own storyboard people they then remove the story from the game's plot.


They also look at the plot of previous games and remove or change them if they feel it hinders the current story they want to tell. It's a story. The ability to go back and change it applies to the games and books. So until Blizzard decides an event or an entire book is no longer valid it could be used as a source of information for evaluating the characters such as Valerian.

I'd chalk that up to a timeline issue. Zerus might've gone through a mass extinction event, been rendered nearly liveless, and then bounced back.


The manual didn't say nearly it said all life. Even changing it from all life to nearly all life is a retcon.

They just chose crappy writers is all. The comics pretty much all suck, and that's just the nature of comics in general. Very rarely do you see a comic story that's better than novels, and good enough that movie makers don't feel the need to change it.


Once again that's your opinion not fact and does not by any means prove that the books are bad or the writers were crappy. The fact that Flashpoint had a four plus star rating on amazon.com and most reviewers I googled praised Flashpoint would indicate that the book and story within was well received. You really come across as jealous trying to treat your opinion as fact and insulting the writers with your comment about writing yourself.

In a game with $#!tty plot, yes I do. However, I first acknowledge the one it already has when playing it through the first couple times.


The way you tend to insult the books, comics and game stories I wonder how much respectful consideration you really give the stories.


Ah yes, yes I could. I write stories for a living.


Why the heck did you even make that claim? Writing your own stories has absolutely nothing to do with your ignoring information about the characters and does nothing to prove that you could properly evaluate the character while ignoring information about them.
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It was a gamble on their part, which they've done before. However, when they find that the third party writers do worse than their own storyboard people they then remove the story from the game's plot.


That depends on their definition of "doing worse".
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05/12/2013 05:48 PMPosted by ragnarok
It was a gamble on their part, which they've done before. However, when they find that the third party writers do worse than their own storyboard people they then remove the story from the game's plot.


That depends on their definition of "doing worse".


Having seen what the comics did in particular I'm thoroughly unimpressed. Comics have always damaged good stories that originated from outside the comic book industry. Both the "Aliens" and "Predator" franchises took a huge hit when comics got a hold of the concept. Then there was the Superman vs. Aliens and after that Batman vs. Predator. It just kept deteriorating from there. No, comics are where good and even mediocre stories go to die.
Edited by Goyathla on 5/13/2013 9:08 PM PDT
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The manual didn't say nearly it said all life. Even changing it from all life to nearly all life is a retcon.


I read that from you and others the first time. I've already addressed that and the rest of your screed. Most of your spouting is sychophantic, and therefore means nothing.
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05/13/2013 09:08 PMPosted by Goyathla


That depends on their definition of "doing worse".


Having seen what the comics did in particular I'm thoroughly unimpressed. Comics have always damaged good stories that originated from outside the comic book industry. Both the "Aliens" and "Predator" franchises took a huge hit when comics got a hold of the concept. Then there was the Superman vs. Aliens and after that Batman vs. Predator. It just kept deteriorating from there. No, comics are where good and even mediocre stories go to die.


this is why I don't read the SC comics THAT heavily...
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Having seen what the comics did in particular I'm thoroughly unimpressed. Comics have always damaged good stories that originated from outside the comic book industry. Both the "Aliens" and "Predator" franchises took a huge hit when comics got a hold of the concept. Then there was the Superman vs. Aliens and after that Batman vs. Predator. It just kept deteriorating from there. No, comics are where good and even mediocre stories go to die.


this is why I don't read the SC comics THAT heavily...


I can't help but notice that the three listed comics all seem to be cross overs. The type of cross overs that fans would have been arguing about or even asking for. I don't believe the problem comes from the fact that it was a comic but rather because it was a cross over between two different stories. How many good cross overs have you read after all?
Edited by Inprea on 5/14/2013 5:46 AM PDT
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this is why I don't read the SC comics THAT heavily...


I can't help but notice that the three listed comics all seem to be cross overs. The type of cross overs that fans would have been arguing about or even asking for. I don't believe the problem comes from the fact that it was a comic but rather because it was a cross over between two different stories. How many good cross overs have you read after all?


There aren't many crossovers I've read, PERIOD.
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Having seen what the comics did in particular I'm thoroughly unimpressed. Comics have always damaged good stories that originated from outside the comic book industry. Both the "Aliens" and "Predator" franchises took a huge hit when comics got a hold of the concept. Then there was the Superman vs. Aliens and after that Batman vs. Predator. It just kept deteriorating from there. No, comics are where good and even mediocre stories go to die.


this is why I don't read the SC comics THAT heavily...


It's why I don't read them at all. I know a number of people who keep telling me comics aren't bad, but then inadvertantly disprove that by explaining the stories to me.
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