StarCraft® II

Call to Action: May 2 Balance Testing

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Posts: 7,856
05/06/2013 10:07 AMPosted by Ezekiel
Just realized that early Burrow can be HUGE in protecting Drones from Reaper and Oracle harasses.


Getting burrow that quickly... It could work, though against Reapers I can't imagine you'd have it quickly enough to keep from being forced to make and cancel buildings to keep drones alive.

Just want to point out that I think being forced to make and cancel building to avoid taking drones loses (you will ALWAYS take mineral loses) is the most hilariously stupid thing ever. Reactored Reapers are pretty retarded too.
Posts: 179
Spore Crawler
Damage increased from 15 +15 vs. biological to 15 +30 vs. biological


Good change, considering you guys have made it evident time and time again that Skytoss is to remain overpowered, Hydralisks will never be truly worth their cost, and Zerg AA is to remain forever pathetic.



Wow I play zerg and toss and you are not understanding. hydras dominate skytoss. voids do 6 (+4 dmg to armor, and 6 more dmg vs armored while active is on) every .6 seconds. Hydras have 80 health and arent armored. that means it would take roughly 11 seconds for a voidray to kill a hydralisk. Also corrupters out speed and range void rays, so you can just run away when they use active and without active corruptors out dps void rays. If you go swarmhost corruptor they cant beat you head on, and they cant counter attack very easily with corruptor speed. I still think the bonus to armor on void rays should be nerfed, but trust me, Z AA is not bad.
Posts: 2,767
05/06/2013 02:05 PMPosted by Column
that means it would take roughly 11 seconds for a voidray to kill a hydralisk.


LOLOLOLOL, your math must be wrong somewhere, trust me, its not 11 seconds to kill a hydra.

05/06/2013 02:05 PMPosted by Column
Also corrupters out speed and range void rays, so you can just run away when they use active and without active corruptors out dps void rays.


The acceleration of corrupters is terribly slow, and voids fire while moving, this causes micro issues vs them.
Edited by FloorWax on 5/6/2013 4:25 PM PDT
Posts: 6,908
And the spore change will accomplish quite a bit, 30 dmg per shot is nasty.
it's 15 + 30. It will be 45.
- Technical Support
Posts: 8,112
Banelings might be burrowed early on on the field but the difference is, between Mines and Banelings is that mines have pretty much 3 times the damage a baneling can do. Against a zerg, it's DAMN effective.

Widow mines have greater single target attack. Banelings have a bigger splash radius and can do a lot more damage than a widow mine.

PS: I'm not saying anything about balance. I'm just saying don't underestimate burrowed banelings especially in the early game as terran doesn't want to have to scan everywhere that early in the game.
Edited by KillerofGods on 5/6/2013 5:09 PM PDT
Posts: 656
rotoss

Oracle
Movement speed increased from 3.375 to 4
Acceleration increased from 2 to 3


OMg is he drunk? oracles r insanely good destroying drones/scv/probes if they want to make them exciting then buff speed but decrease attack damage damn at least play them before deciding to buff a unit...
Posts: 49
I was thinking about a bunch of other changes-- I really see a problem with Terran's Widow Mines and Hellbats.

From a game design (the right term?) point of view, I hate that the Widow Mine has replaced the Tank in TvZ, which is an iconic and core unit of the game... I would like to see Tanks back in TvZ...

Widow Mine health needs to be lower... you need to be able to 'catch' the unit before it burrows, especially with workers in my opinion.

Hellbats of course being healed as Bio makes no sense... that really needs to be removed. Damage also needs to be reduced to normal Helion levels until Blue Flame is upgraded-- giving a reason for the upgrade again and of course the additional health and cone splash damage still makes this worth transforming! So then the transform could come back without an upgrade.

Corruptors need to be redesigned, they are a pretty stagnant unit in my opinion.

One funny thing that I think Bliz got right are the new reapers, but what's funny is that I thought one of the goals for the HotS reaper was to be viable in the late game? Hah.

The spore buff is crazy too much, I would rather see either some changes to Queen Air attack, or Hydra Air attack (vs. Bio) to make Roach / Hydra a bit more viable against mass Mutas. I still go Roach / Hydra in ZvZ myself but it's tough and it relies on my opponent making a mistake and either not paying attention or having his Mutas caught by a fungal.

One really nice change would be to have Hydra speed automatically researched or Hydra range/speed in one upgrade. Right now these two upgrades are so gas expensive researched individually.
Posts: 11
I still don't how Hellbats are still able to be healed by Medivacs.
When the Hellbats transform back to Hellions the heals stop. When you transform them back to Hellbats the Medivacs starts healing them again.

Vikings aren't healed by medivacs in either form, so how is it that Hellbats when their in Hellbat form can benefit from heals? How can an unit that is a mechanical unit become a biological unit from transforming modes?
- Technical Support
Posts: 8,112
I still don't how Hellbats are still able to be healed by Medivacs.
When the Hellbats transform back to Hellions the heals stop. When you transform them back to Hellbats the Medivacs starts healing them again.

Vikings aren't healed by medivacs in either form, so how is it that Hellbats when their in Hellbat form can benefit from heals? How can an unit that is a mechanical unit become a biological unit from transforming modes?

How can a person with a rifle shoot down a battlecruiser or carrier?
Posts: 1,030
So I've played around with the map a little bit, just messing around vs the AI and I've noticed a few things;

- The oracle speed buff honestly feels like overkill. It is so stupidly easy now to proxy stargate vs Terran and just roflstomp them. It pretty much forces early engineering bay or lose. A quick bunker wasn't a bad idea before, since you could just salvage it after and the marines would toast the Oracle once it got in range of it but the extra speed makes all the difference between skirting through with some minor HP damage and outright getting shot down. The acceleration buff is fine and should stay, but I don't know about the speed.

- Burrow buff is wonderful, only thing I can add would be perhaps lower the research time slightly to make it more applicable in the very early game - especially in tandem with banelings for ZvZ. It's making early roach pushes and defensive banelings much more viable, love it.

- Spore crawler damage feels like overkill. At 30 damge it was 4-shotting mutas, now it's 3-shotting them (more than actually, since 45x3 = 135 and Mutas only have 120. Even with armor upgrades and the regen they are going to die in 3 hits). It's a little too easy mode I feel, and I can't help but wonder if Zerg would be better off with some kind of damage buff to Hydras instead (+dmg vs flying). That, or have Hydra speed increase movement speed both off and on creep. I still don't really get why they're the only Zerg ground unit that doesn't move faster on creep (well, they do but their speed buff caps their movement period whereas roaches and lings move even faster).
Posts: 1,482
From a Protoss perspective, I adamantly object the Oracle buff. Oracles have the potential to destroy a Mineral Line in a few seconds, but it's a high-risk/high-reward unit. With the Speed buff, it reduces the risk for the Protoss but still maintains the same reward.
Posts: 216
Buff Swamrhost? Umad, bro?
Posts: 682

- Spore crawler damage feels like overkill. At 30 damge it was 4-shotting mutas, now it's 3-shotting them (more than actually, since 45x3 = 135 and Mutas only have 120. Even with armor upgrades and the regen they are going to die in 3 hits).


I think that was the point. lol
Posts: 9
LOLOLOLOL, your math must be wrong somewhere, trust me, its not 11 seconds to kill a hydra.


Voidray does base 6 dmg/0.6 sec, so its DPS is 10. Hydra has 0 armor at base, so it takes 8 seconds to kill a hydralisk.

EDIT: Oops, weapon cooldown was lowered to 0.5, so its DPS is actually 12. So it takes less than 7 seconds to kill a hydra.
Edited by CornerPocket on 5/7/2013 12:09 PM PDT
Posts: 1,030
Fact: VR will overpower Hydras in small numbers. Compound that with either Storm or Colossi and Zerg has a problem. Hydras are technically the right answer to VR, but it takes a critical mass of them (relative to the VR count) to really be effective.
Posts: 3,485
Fact: VR will overpower Hydras in small numbers. Compound that with either Storm or Colossi and Zerg has a problem. Hydras are technically the right answer to VR, but it takes a critical mass of them (relative to the VR count) to really be effective.


but only takes 2-3 collosi to make that hydra force vaporize
Posts: 36
Wow I play zerg and toss and you are not understanding. hydras dominate skytoss. voids do 6 (+4 dmg to armor, and 6 more dmg vs armored while active is on) every .6 seconds. Hydras have 80 health and arent armored. that means it would take roughly 11 seconds for a voidray to kill a hydralisk. Also corrupters out speed and range void rays, so you can just run away when they use active and without active corruptors out dps void rays. If you go swarmhost corruptor they cant beat you head on, and they cant counter attack very easily with corruptor speed. I still think the bonus to armor on void rays should be nerfed, but trust me, Z AA is not bad.

wtf?? Are you serious right now? OKay first Voids attack every .5 it got buffed. which means 12 dps. so approx 6.66 seconds for a void to kill a hydra. The problem is all the voids will be attacking the hydras while only the front hydras will attack the voids.
Corrupters out speed voids big deal Corrupters are a joke.
VR dps is 12 vs non armored. Vs armored its 20 dps (no charge) 32 DPS (charged).
Corrupter DPS is 7.4 vs massive its 10.6. I don't know how much worse it can get for a 150 100 cost unit.
Zerg Anti air is bogus. It sucks.
Literally just storm the hydras target corrupters with voids.
Feedback infestors. SKytoss gets the upper hand on every occasion
Posts: 7
Spore crawler buff you say is +30 vs bio but is actually in game it says +45 either way you want to lower the amount of mutalisk play in zvz +45 damage completely destroys any mutalisk play i attempted playing vs mutalisk and it just annihilates mutalisk 2 spore crawlers stops any amount of mutalisk i think 25 at best for spore buff and maybe make spore buff to just 25 vs all units because terran drops u need like 4 spores and 5 spines to stop if army is not near. Oracle speed buff is ridiculous as if they couldnt already destroy queens and drones in an instant now they can do it faster
Posts: 7
Other than that the decrease for zerg burrow is nice it helps out vs protoss and terran early game so its not constant defending for zerg in beginning of the game and helps against protoss 4 gate since ur not spending so much gas on burrow and tuneling claws to counter against protoss forcefields
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