StarCraft® II

State Vs Scarlett

Any idea what to do against those swarmhost Zergs?
Reply Quote
Well there were a couple points where he could have picked at the vipers and didn't.

Honestly I think it's going to get nerfed. Moer and more zergs are backing up this !@#$ with transfuse and there's absolutely no counter to that.
Reply Quote
1. Press F10 button
2. Press N button
Reply Quote
Yeah I have the solution for you. Once you scout Hydralisk den or infestation pit or if the zerg is upgrading his hatch into a lair, immediately drop down 2 robos and a robotics bay. I like to get my robo early vs zerg so by the time i scout one of the things i mentioned earlier, I'l be able to immediately drop down a bay. Usually when he pushes out with his hosts, you want want to pressure him with your army but not directly engage his locusts. In the meantime, you want to be pumping out colossus out of both of your robos and chrono boosting them. Once you hit 4 colossus you are then able to successfully fend off any attack as colo splash will outnumber locusts and you'l be able to directly push. If Zerg loses his swarm hosts, you pretty much won the game and you can go for an all in. Now if Zerg scouts this incomming counter attack and moves troops back to base, you go directly for HT, as many zergs like to follow up with hydra/viper/swarm host. With HTs you can feedback vipers and storm his units which works wonders. If he doesn't go either and just go's straight to ultralisks, then just mass pump immortals/archon and you have already won the game. In the meantime during all of this, be sure to take a third and eventually a 4rth so you don't fall behind in eco. Hope that helped.
Edited by RylaD on 5/7/2013 7:13 PM PDT
Reply Quote
^^ So you're saying State didn't go hard enough to Collossi and so fell behind (depite having a 4th) and became unable to support the HTs he needed against the Vipers? Or did you not watch the game and you're answering generically?
Reply Quote
1. Press F10 button
2. Press N button

this build works pretty well vs mass mutalisk too
Reply Quote
state didn't use warp prisms, or grab HTs to feedback the vipers

but the biggest thing are the prisms.

just go around the damn things, much like terran does to zerg with drops and toss for that matter as well
Reply Quote
state didn't use warp prisms, or grab HTs to feedback the vipers

but the biggest thing are the prisms.

just go around the damn things, much like terran does to zerg with drops and toss for that matter as well

1-3 medivacs worth of Bio don't cut into the Terran supply too much, but are better against static defense than WG units. If you ignore Terran drops and base race, you generally just lose: that's not nearly as true with warp prisms. WP backstabs are good, but they generally just keep the Zerg from extending beyond the number of bases they can afford static defense for.
HTs did seem to be an important omission, and people have mentioned a Mothership as a potential defense aid against just waves of locusts (they at least force the Zerg to pay attention rather than kill you with auto-rally).
But in the end, wouldn't just going around Scarlett's fortified position have meant a base race that Scarlett would have won, even with recall? Scarlett's army is stronger, with higher DPS, and just as fast.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd really like to know how you'd make these backstabs and do enough damage (and the HT/Collossi defense be cost efficient enough at holding) to either allow you to win a base race or else throw enough crap at the Zerg to break them once you've sufficiently starved their econ.
Edited by BlackAdder on 5/8/2013 10:08 AM PDT
Reply Quote
this build works pretty well vs mass mutalisk too

Nah, mutas are one of the few things I actually beat lately.
Reply Quote
I love Protoss Tears. Given that they are a really easy race to play and Zerg is one of the hardest they really still can't counter swarmhosts?
Edited by Nerchio on 5/8/2013 1:21 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Nah, mutas are one of the few things I actually beat lately.

seems you haven't seen a good muta player yet lol. If you don't have pheonix up by the time he gets muta up, your ethier dead or all-in. No question.
Reply Quote
I love Protoss Tears. Given that they are a really easy race to play and Zerg is one of the hardest they really still can't counter swarmhosts?

you can't really compare the skill required for each race. As they require different things and people train and are better at different things.
Terran is Technique and control.
Protoss is Problem Solving and Planning.
Zerg is Movement and Speed.
They all require a bit of everything, just that's what each race is most of.
Also you can ask every random player out there, and they'll say Terran is the hardest race, not because of balance issues or anything of the sort, but because Terran also has the highest skill cap, because almost every unit terran has requires constant control.
Edited by GameDog on 5/8/2013 1:29 PM PDT
Reply Quote
seems you haven't seen a good muta player yet lol. If you don't have pheonix up by the time he gets muta up, your ethier dead or all-in. No question.

Yeah, I open SG and usually see the switch coming before the numbers get big, which may be why hydras always kick my !@#. No, I haven't played good players. I have, unfortunately, been playing a lot of players better than me.
So if a muta player beats me, it's generally because they switched *out* of mutas faster than I thought they could afford to.
Edited by BlackAdder on 5/8/2013 1:40 PM PDT
Reply Quote
I love Protoss Tears. Given that they are a really easy race to play and Zerg is one of the hardest they really still can't counter swarmhosts?


I love how you think teh most micro itensive late game army is hard to play. With the exception probably of certain terran mech but let's be honest terran almost never does that kind of play in sc2.
Reply Quote
I love how you think teh most micro itensive late game army is hard to play. With the exception probably of certain terran mech but let's be honest terran almost never does that kind of play in sc2.


Makes me giggle

Truly, if you have trouble with protoss control - where you can literally 1a and go back to your base to macro - you'd get slammed with terran or zerg

The only thing that really takes stellar control with protoss is a gateway + forcefield heavy style (like the one HuK plays in all matchups).....

Edit: maybe you get credit for phoenix vs mutalisk play ... but even then you're still equal in terms of micro intensity with the zerg
Edited by SilverBullet on 5/8/2013 10:42 PM PDT
Reply Quote
05/08/2013 10:41 PMPosted by SilverBullet
I love how you think teh most micro itensive late game army is hard to play. With the exception probably of certain terran mech but let's be honest terran almost never does that kind of play in sc2.


Makes me giggle

Truly, if you have trouble with protoss control - where you can literally 1a and go back to your base to macro - you'd get slammed with terran or zerg

The only thing that really takes stellar control with protoss is a gateway + forcefield heavy style (like the one HuK plays in all matchups).....

Edit: maybe you get credit for phoenix vs mutalisk play ... but even then you're still equal in terms of micro intensity with the zerg


Well it is kind of funny that you are talking about zerg micro intensity in a thread about swarm hosts. Zerg players can literally walk away from the computer for 5 minutes while the protoss micros against free SH waves and come back just in time to hit 4 abducts and a fungal.

In terms of spectating, blizz have somehow managed to take the broodlord infestor snoozefest to the next level. Now you can watch a match for 30+ minutes without actually seeing a real fight.
Edited by Pesto on 5/8/2013 11:14 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Truly, if you have trouble with protoss control - where you can literally 1a and go back to your base to macro - you'd get slammed with terran or zerg


Is that how templars storm, sentries ff and gs, mscs time warp, and phoenix lift? Didn't think so.

Edit: maybe you get credit for phoenix vs mutalisk play ... but even then you're still equal in terms of micro intensity with the zerg


zerg is the most a click race in this game buddy. You make mass units that have no castable abilities and a move. Swarm hosts require 0 micro and flying around 4 vipers around the locusts hardly constitutes micro.
Edited by Nix on 5/9/2013 5:52 AM PDT
Reply Quote
state didn't use warp prisms, or grab HTs to feedback the vipers

but the biggest thing are the prisms.

just go around the damn things, much like terran does to zerg with drops and toss for that matter as well

1-3 medivacs worth of Bio don't cut into the Terran supply too much, but are better against static defense than WG units. If you ignore Terran drops and base race, you generally just lose: that's not nearly as true with warp prisms. WP backstabs are good, but they generally just keep the Zerg from extending beyond the number of bases they can afford static defense for.
HTs did seem to be an important omission, and people have mentioned a Mothership as a potential defense aid against just waves of locusts (they at least force the Zerg to pay attention rather than kill you with auto-rally).
But in the end, wouldn't just going around Scarlett's fortified position have meant a base race that Scarlett would have won, even with recall? Scarlett's army is stronger, with higher DPS, and just as fast.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd really like to know how you'd make these backstabs and do enough damage (and the HT/Collossi defense be cost efficient enough at holding) to either allow you to win a base race or else throw enough crap at the Zerg to break them once you've sufficiently starved their econ.


I don't think scarlett's army is more mobile at all, she/he/it has to slowly push up with creep and spore/spine crawlers. I didn't mean for him to take his whole army and go around it, just a couple prisms out on the map to slowly pick away at the z expansions and starve the z out. Usually this would be initially be with zealots, but later with DTs

Yes, I do agree that the static defense can be a pain in the @ss. I think the reasonable solution here is to not let the z get on 5 base or whatever and get all the defense up in the first place. Harder said than done, but if you warp in right, z will have to pull hydras back at the least, opening open the swarmhost to the main army.
Reply Quote
05/09/2013 06:47 AMPosted by llllllllllll
I don't think scarlett's army is more mobile at all,

I don't want to overstate the point, but I believe swarmhosts, hydras, vipers, and overlords are all faster that a protoss ball, at least on creep. The only thing slower is the static defense, and Scarlett can just replicate some of that at home.

I didn't mean for him to take his whole army and go around it, just a couple prisms out on the map to slowly pick away at the z expansions and starve the z out. Usually this would be initially be with zealots, but later with DTs

I thought so, but that's why I was saying that that strategy is fundamentally just a zerg expansion deterrent, fundamentally unable to close the deal by itself unless the Zerg overextends.

I think the reasonable solution here is to not let the z get on 5 base or whatever and get all the defense up in the first place. Harder said than done, but if you warp in right, z will have to pull hydras back at the least, opening open the swarmhost to the main army.

And that's my point. Swarmhosts are lair tech, and vipers are 14-15 minute tech. What I think you've just told me is that a turtle to 3 base Protoss push is obsolete against a good Zerg because it hits too late, that Zerg has a new BL/infestor, but it's online a little faster.
Reply Quote
I think tempest, Colossi, void rays, and Templar do well, but the biggest key is a MOTHER SHIP. knowing where to place your mother ship for a cloaking field to prevent swarm host from being effective is key. Keep your army just out of range of the spore crawlers, and sniping the overseers at all cost, i even feedback them when their energy is high. This will help make the end game swarm host push not as effective. Still a difficult fight to win but I see lots of end game PVZ very swarm host viper corrupter defense siege style win because the toss NEVER get the mothership. Wish I could say I've done this late game but I just never let them get their.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]